Quarter Sales Numbers

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Released today:
Vehicle sales up:
Toyota +11% with 200,482 units sold ("...best sales ever in US") Nissan +14% (Included Infinity up 59%)
BMW +3%
Sales Flat to lower:
GM Flat (-0.5%) with 472,527 units sold Ford -15% with 311,084 units sold
US companies are still sliding...even with GM's insanely generous incentives & offers when compared to those offered by the Toyotas and Nissans of the world and with overall auto sales going up, they lost even more market share <sigh>...again!! Is there no one else worried about this lengthy trend?
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get, and a pushrod V6. Origami-styled Cadillacs. Supercharged Impalas and Monte Carlos that won't hide their ugly outsides or insides. Buick clone of the corporate SUV. Suzukis that are rebadged Daewoos.
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I don't know which cars are better. Probably a mix. Some domestic cars are good and some not so good. Same goes for imports. In my mind the decision of which to buy is simple:
If you won't support the country you live in, you should seriously consider a move.
Germany and Japan were both enemies of America within my living memory and took the lives of members of my family. Why would I want to support anyone in either of those countries?
Japan charges very high duties on vehicles imported into Japan - many times more than the duties America charges on cars imported from Japan. Unfair trade practices. I am amazed that the US Government hasn't put an end to that practice long ago. The Japanese always say "We are looking into that" when the Americans confront them with the facts, but in typical Oriental fashion, they never stop "looking" and nothing happens. And yes, I am aware that many Japanese cars are now manufactured in the US providing employment to US workers, but the corporate profits go back to Japan.
German cars are expensive to maintain. If you don't believe me, you can talk to a neighbor of mine who owned an Audi Quatro Wagon for two years and was so very happy to finally get rid of it. He now drives a Chevrolet and has had no problems with it.
In purchasing automobiles and other things, people should support the country they are living in wherever possible.
"If you continue to buy imports, where will your children work?"
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I agree totally with the idea of supporting local industry.
But I feel compelled to point out that your making a mistake judging both Germany and Japan as a result of WWII. The people in both countries that were responsible for directing the killing of Americans have long since been removed from power and punished. In particular, Israel has an entire secret department in their military that specializes in tracking and kidnapping old Nazi's that they can find anywhere in the world and bringing them back for trial. And Japan served as our atomic testing ground which almost certainly has been responsible for stopping further world wars. As for the rank and file in those countries during the war, just as in the US, the media press was manipulated to block the real truth of what was going on during the war. By continuing to blame the people in those countries today for the deaths of members of your family, your basically blaming the gun for their deaths, rather than the shooters of the gun.
Ted
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I have bought a 1999 GMC Jimmy (brand new) and I have had to: - replace the rear main seal - replace the oil cooler lines (three times) - re-glue the outside door cladding - replace the wheel hubs+ bearings (3 of them) - replace the seat back handle - replace the head gasket - then another oil leak: I was told the rear main seal was leaking again as well as the manifold intake. Just when I was pondering what to do about this, the engine blows (I have put in a new engine) after less than four years and 110,000 kms. - replaced the turn signal (around CDN$500) - noise in the dashboard: it appears that an engine mount is bad
I would love to support the North American car industry, however, when I am getting ripped off by GM (everyone: from managers who make crappy decisions, engineers who design crappy products, assembly line workers who don't give a damn about their work and QA people who sleep on the job), why should I care if GM goes bust tomorrow ? Happy riddance !

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Well, I've moved to this country and since then I've only bought American cars: 1 from Chrysler and 3 from GM. ;-)

However, not aping what Japan does is better for America. Japan does that at its own loss, more than America's. You see, the consumers are forced to pay more for their cars because of limited foreign competition, whereas we have a more competitive market with lower prices. Were America to do with cars what it did with steel, then I'd be worried.

America is one of the few countries in the world where cars are everyone's commodity, not a luxury item.
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But you see, that really isn't true and a little examination will show why.
The true cost to an individual of an auto is not just the car itself, it's also the infrastructure to support that car.
In the US, we all feel it's everyone's God-given right to own a car no matter how much a beater it is. So we use an enormous amount of foreign oil to keep them all fueled, thus we have to finance a large military to keep order in the Mideast. (to say nothing of subsidys we are paying those countries) We also have to pay for a huge infrastructure in roads, and the maintainence on them. We also have increased medical and legal costs due to increased number of vehicle accidents and we also all pay a decrease in quality of life due to smog, time wasted on the highway due to congestion, etc. etc. This is all due to the sheer numbers of vehicles owned in the country.
However, in Japan since the government has made car ownership more expensive, fewer people drive, thus the societal costs that aren't blatently obvious are much less. As a result the Japanese government is putting their money into other things than supporting a big private car vehicle ownership thing. Additionally, because they don't assume that everyone has the right to own a vehicle no matter how poor, they can (and are) a lot tougher on vehicle inspections (ie: emissions) which helps as well to improve quality of life.

This would not be a problem if every car owner was responsible and didn't operate vehicles that had problems (thus increasing pollution) and didn't drive unless necessary and when they did drive they combined trips, (thus decreasing congestion) and lived near their work place (thus reducing commuter time) and didn't operate vehicles when they were impared by drunkenness, inexperience, age, or stupidity, and when they did operate vehicles, obeyed the traffic laws.
Unfortunately, because we regard them as commodities, this by default allows that bottom-of-the-barrel 1% of vehicle owners that are morons, to spoil the experience for everyone else.
Ted
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Please tell us which college taught you that stuff? I want to make sure none of my grand children go to that school. Do you actually believe our armed forces exist simply to protect the oil supply? We protect the world oil supply to keep the worlds economy from collapsing, which would effect ours more than the lose of foreign oil would effect our economy. The only reason we import oil is because it is less expensive to produce than domestic oil. One of the primary reason domestic oil is more expensive is BECAUSE we DO care about the environment. We have passed environmental laws that resulted in making domestic oil much more expensive. Oil stocks are used for many things beside fuel, only a small percentage of each barrel of oil goes off as gasoline. It is our environmental laws the prevent us from using more coal, that is much less expensive than oil, as a replacement for oil stocks. We have all the oil we need within our boarders and in our offshore oil reserves. If all of a sudden we consumed 1/3 less crude, we would actually INCREASE the percentage of oil that we import, not decrease the percentage, because of the lower price. Without even trying I'll bet, if you did just a little research, you could find several dozen countries none of which have oil, that are free today because of the US and our military.
mike hunt
Ted Mittelstaedt wrote:

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No. We have 5% of the world's oil supply and use 25%.

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Nothing like being shoved into a train when heading to a 500 sq.ft. appartment! :-)
Oh, boy...
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:-) Well, that's a choice that has little to do with a car - at least not in the back seats of what they sell for cars in Japan. ;-)
Overpopulation is a choice that people in a society make. I live in a growing urban area and constantly read in the paper about people complaining about their quality of life being degraded by more people moving in. Most of them of course are also out having the usual American 3.5 children.
Ted
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So you're telling me you own NO Japanese electronics? Nothing from Germany?

I'm glad they didn't, else we'd all be driving K-cars and Pintos.

THIS, we agree on. I did own a VW Jetta at one time, and it about ate me alive. I'm in complete disagreement with people who buy Japanese autos because of perceived high quality. I do think that most new US vehicles are just as high quality as Japanese makes. I bought my Maxima because no US automaker has an equivalent, except maybe the CTS, and pricewise that is out of my league. If it had been a "Chevrolet Maxima", I would have gladly bought it just the same.
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James C. Reeves wrote:

The Nissan percentages are misleading, because their sales have been DISMAL over the last few years. Their upward trend means that they're going to survive, not that they're burning up the market. I think its the first time in history that being bought by Renault has done something GOOD for a car company (which only shows how bad they were before).
Yeah, I'm worried by the trend. But I don't buy foreign junk anyway.
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| The Nissan percentages are misleading, because their sales have been | DISMAL over the last few years. Their upward trend means that they're | going to survive, not that they're burning up the market. I think its | the first time in history that being bought by Renault has done | something GOOD for a car company (which only shows how bad they were | before). | | Yeah, I'm worried by the trend. But I don't buy foreign junk anyway. | |
Hopefully we still have a domestic option in 10 years, or we won't have a choice. :-(
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I'll bet Toyota would just LOVE to have those GM numbers, or even Fords. Toyota would love to be 'flat' at 472,527 CARS compared to their 200,482. In case you haven't noticed the figures were CAR sales not total vehicle sales. Americans buy more light truck, which includes SUV's, than cars. Ford sells more F150's in month then Toyota sell total trucks and truck based SUV's in a year. Toyota sell the number one car but Ford, Chevy and Dodge trucks far outsell ANYTHING Toyota or any Japanese company sells.
mike hunt
"James C. Reeves" wrote:

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| I'll bet Toyota would just LOVE to have those GM numbers, or even | Fords. Toyota would love to be 'flat' at 472,527 CARS compared | to their 200,482. In case you haven't noticed the figures were | CAR sales not total vehicle sales. Americans | buy more light truck, which includes SUV's, than cars. Ford | sells more F150's in month then Toyota sell total trucks | and truck based SUV's in a year. Toyota sell the number one car | but Ford, Chevy and Dodge trucks far outsell ANYTHING Toyota or | any Japanese company sells. | | | mike hunt
If the continuing trend isn't reversed, the numbers WILL be reversed within the decade...a very sad mathematical fact. BTW, Toyota gained market share on the trucks sales as well.
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James C. Reeves wrote:

Q: how many of those are fleet sales?
GM and Ford, last I checked, had a virtual stranglehold on the rental industry, so it's a bit unfair to compare them to companies that do most of their business to individuals.
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On Wed, 3 Sep 2003 16:00:05 -0400, "James C. Reeves"

LS after 7 months of ownership? :) Just kidding.
I know how you feel...I'm regretting getting my GM car in February.
Brad
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I bought an Olds Intrigue in June of 02, dumped it this past March and bought a Maxima.
Maybe I'll come back to GM.. but probably not, now that I've discovered what a "real" car is supposed to be like.
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Rich wrote:

When are people going to stop equating "American car" with "GM?"
And "real car?" Maxima? Puh-LEEZE.
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