Quarter Sales Numbers

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On Thu, 04 Sep 2003 15:44:28 GMT, Joseph Oberlander


That would be Kia, or the GM branded Daewoo cars that GM is selling for the 2004 model year.
Brad
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Brad Clarke wrote:

Hey! Kia makes cars that aren;t so bad. Simmilar to a ten year old Honda technologicaly, but new. Yeah - compared to today's imports, they stink, but they still are as good as Chrysler and GM - for a lot less money. Oh - better warranty than GM or Chrysler as well.
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On Sat, 06 Sep 2003 02:12:49 GMT, Joseph Oberlander

Yep, and they are cute too.
If my wife was able to drive, I would have seriously considered getting 2 Kia Rio wagons instead of the one car I have now.
Brad
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Are you implying that they are just bad? :-)

I'd say it's more like 30 years-old Honda techonology...

Yeah, right.

If'd have taken the time to check the list of exceptions you'd realize that it's just a deception. BTW, one doesn't get the 10 years if one doesn't waive the right to sue...
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Neo wrote:

No. 10. The best Honda and Toyota were making a decade ago - they aren't SOTA to be sure now, but back then, they were fine and reliable vehicles. Many are still on the road.
Of you could get Jimmy and take your chances.

$9K for a Rio? It whomps on the Metro in every test. More power, better warranty, less cost. TONS less cost.
GM makes fine cars at the upper end like the LeSabre, but their low-end is apallingly poor and flimsy. They really don't try any harder to build a decent small car than they did with the EV-1.

So - I see - you have to resort to lawyers and lemon laws to get anything from GM. Nice.
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Just take a lok under any Koeran car and notice the huge steel reinforcements to make it comply with American crash tests. The Japanese did it much better then...

You mean the Chevy Metr, AKA Suzuki Switft? I thought you were talking about cars...

I don't consider sub-compacts worthy my concern. One has to want a new car badly to shell off such amount of money on a POS of a car when for that amount one can get an off-lease 3 year-old car with just 36000mls...
But if you insist: no, I don't think that there's any worthy domestic sub-compact. And no worthy Korean sub-compact either. In this category, there are more sensible options from the Japanese manufacturers.

REad my lips: in order to get Kia or Hyundai's 10-year warranty you have to waive your right to sue, including any lemon law in your state. You basicaly agree to resort to the arbitration company they employ only, or risk voiding that "wonderful" warranty...
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Joseph Oberlander wrote:

All of the reliability data I've seen still puts the Koreans well behind the Americans ... but the gap is narrowing quickly. I have no doubt they will catch up as the Koreans are anal about beating the Japanese in every way possible. They've pretty much done so in electronics and autos will happen in due time.
Matt
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Hyundai is quite reliable now -- check the CR data. Kia lags, and who knows how the Daewoo-built, Suzuki-badged cars will do?

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Lloyd Parker wrote:

Funny, since the same company owns both.
No, it really is. Kia has better layout, design, and features by far, and Hyundai has slightly better reliability. Go figure.
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Yeah, but I suspect they're made in different plants (except for the Sonata-clone, Optima).

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Joseph Oberlander wrote:

Look at the variation among GM brands...
Matt
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On Tue, 09 Sep 2003 05:12:37 GMT, Joseph Oberlander

Hyundai recently bailed Kia out. Prior to that, they were really two different manufacturers.
Brad
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So you don't mind that the top CEO's of Hyundai are getting nailed one after the other for funnelling hundreds of millions (possibly billions - see how much more turns up) to the government of North Korea?
Lloyd Parker wrote:
Hyundai is quite reliable now -- check the CR data. Kia lags,
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No more than Ken Lay funnelling millions to himself and his Republican benefactors.

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Rich wrote:

In the last JD Power survey I saw, Buick ranked very highly in number of problems per 100 cars. Wasn't far behind Lexus and above many Japanese and European brands.
There was a lot of variation in the GM brands so I think you are making a mistake lumping them together.
Matt
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I agree, but I think it's necessary to qualify these statistics. I wonder if the typical Buick buyer puts the same number of miles as the average buyer of the market...
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Neo wrote:

Beats me! There is no perfect set of statistics. None show everything one would like to know.
Matt
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| Didn't you add to the lower GM numbers, when you dumped your 2003 Malibu | LS after 7 months of ownership? :) Just kidding.
Not yet. According to the CarMax web site, as of Tuesday this week, it was still sitting on the Laurel, Maryland lot waiting to be purchased. :-) It's the dark green Malibu LS with sunroof ($14,599). They have quite a few 2003 GM's for sale actually, which is a little surprising. It was very well cared for, Mobil-1 oil changes, etc. Been to some interesting places...Montecello, Montpelier, Gettysburg, Philadelphia, Eastern Shore of Maryland. All of the quality problems, water / body seal leaks, etc. (except the noisy front struts are still a issue) have been fixed.
Eccept for a couple of Fords I owned in the 1970's, in 30+ years of car buying, I've never kept any car since for less than 7 years (average 11 years) and, except for a 16-year-old Dodge Dakota 4x4 I donated to the high school auto shop class, have never gotten rid of a car for quality/engineering or for problem reasons even then...usually selling them to friends since they all were still running great. I guess the 8 months for this one kills my average, huh!?! But, I'm not bitter, there is a cost to education! :-) In this case, about $7K....nearly a year of in-state tuition at UMD (daughter just graduated last year, so I'm free from the cost, I thought!).
| I know how you feel...I'm regretting getting my GM car in February. |
You gave GM two chances...more than they will get from me for a while. I think the engine replacement in your 2000 model would have sealed it for me though. I admire you trying to stick with them...I wish it had worked out better for you. One would think that at least some of the Malibu's are okay...there sure are a lot of them out on the roads!
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On Thu, 4 Sep 2003 11:14:23 -0400, "James C. Reeves"

I also get GM vehicles at cost, so for us it made financial sense to get another GM product.
That plan expires at the end of this year, so when the lease is up on this car, we'll be taking a serious look around at all manufacturers.
Brad
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| I also get GM vehicles at cost, so for us it made financial sense to get | another GM product.
I probably would have given them another go in that case then too. Dollars talk! :-)
| That plan expires at the end of this year, so when the lease is up on | this car, we'll be taking a serious look around at all manufacturers. | | Brad
I had a friend that would rent a model vehicle he was interested in for a few days to "try it on for size" to "see how it fit". It was a little costly, but his argument was that the dealer test drives just don't provide enough time with the car to know how it will fit in with personal preferences, comfort of the seats, etc. etc. I think I now agree with him!! Not sure how to avoid getting generally bad product though, other than lurk in newsgroups like these...although it will be filled mostly with people with problems and issues.
I wonder how the GM 24-hour test drive program worked out...do you know if they still doing that?
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