And how much of the US gov's money do you think they would fork over to
build all roads to be over top of each other? Further more what would
you hazard a guess that would actually cost? In answer to 1st Q. I guess
since the war is top priority, what with preserving oil rich countries
for themselves I'd say may $50.00 each LOL
then to answer 2nd, a trillion and a half USD LOL
Sorry many I couldn't help myself.
Alex, the REAL problem is that there are people who are willing to
disobey the rules if they think they won't get caught. The cameras
make it far more likely they will get caught, and thus reduces the
vary serious problem of red light running.
Yes there are morons out there but the cameras have to be properly
implemented not to have a *negative* impact on safety. Shorter yellow
lights make an intersection less safe. Unfortunately shortened yellows
also make money for the local gov't.
replace "fly" with "com" to reply.
It is true. There are guidelines that have to be followed when setting
up the timing for intersections. You may want to take a peek at 'The
Manual on Uniform Traffic Control Devices'. The guidelines are based on
many years worth of data. If followed, you end up with a safer road. Not
following the guidelines leads to dangerous road conditions. Not following
the guidelines also allows unscrupulous companies to make money selling
red light cameras, so they will compromise safety to make more money.
One of the news magazine took a look at several of the lights people were
complaining about. The yellows were not abnormally short for the speed of
the intersection compared with intersections without cameras.
you mean like this one?
or this one?
I can go on all day... google is your friend
replace "fly" with "com" to reply.
Interesting articles, Nate.
I especially like these statements:
From the second article: "...the Lockheed Martin contract prevents the
city of Tempe from extending the yellow light interval where Lockheed's
cameras are in place."
From the third article: "In Virginia, a study conducted in 2001 in
Fairfax County found that simply increasing the yellow time at a given
intersection by 1.5 seconds reduced red-light infractions by 96 percent,
which was significantly better than the drop in infractions resulting
from the red light cameras they had installed."
I guess my take on the whole thing, since people's lives are at stake
from red-light runners, is that camera ticketing can be used, but *NOT*
until the legal system is set up to pay a *hefty* bounty to citizens who
accurately report a short-cycled yellow, and the municipalities are
forced to: (1) pay the bounty without delay and without challenge when
the report is certified to be correct (false reporting would be met with
a stiff fine to counter people who just want to put a roadblock in the
way of the legal system), and (2) Shut down the camera until the
intersection's timing system is subsequently *certified* to be within
the legal parameters (which would be somethng like 4 seconds for a
(To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
adddress with the letter 'x')
Did you read the articles you posted? Most site the same San Diego cameras.
2.8 seconds versus 3 seconds. You think the lawyers' stop watch is that
accurate? Also they give only one side of the story. I love the way
lawyers are crooks when sueing McDonald's for too hot coffee but here they
provide your facts even though they are advocates for one side.
Well welcome to the Nanny state. I am glad you have no historical facts
on freedom and responsibality. It is a direct afront to our fore fathers
that such a unmaned automatic ticket machine is ok with you. Don`t be
bitching when they come for your phone, computer, TV and any other thing
you might do something illegal on. enjoy you monitored life. KB
ThunderSnake #9 Warn once, shoot twice
460 in the pkup, 460 on the stand for another pkup
On Wed, 22 Sep 2004 21:01:25 +0000 (UTC), Kevin Bottorff
20 gazillion lines of quoted thread deleted, due the fact that we have
already read those messages.
You are a fool. Using automation to observe what is perfectly legal
and desirable for police to observe is effective and efficient. It
aint big brother to watch for violations in public spaces. I'm
against violations of privacy, but this isn't it. You just don't like
not being able to get away with what you shouldn't be doing. I'm glad
you are both morons..
those that run reds, will still run them. even with a shorter yellow
same mentality with tail-gaters... they don't think they are tail-gating.
the shorter yellow will cause inconsistencies in driving habits until one
gets used to it.
i prefer unmarked traffic police vehicles...
Would you pull over for one? I know I wouldn't. Too many loonies out there
pretending to be cops.
The state police in my state uses lots of different unmarked vehicles (Taurus,
Crown Vic, even a few Chrysler products) and they will call for a marked
vehicle to make the stop.
I think I'd just get on my cell phone to verify that the guy behind me was
real before I pulled over.
Many years ago I recall hearing that the German approach was to have
large numbers of clearly marked police cars -- to deter rather than
simply apprehend lawbreakers.
On 09/22/04 08:06 pm 127.0.0.1 put fingers to keyboard and launched the
following message into cyberspace:
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