Re: In-the-tank fuel pumps cause death and destruction

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Maybe if it's the sending unit that is not working?? Or maybe the tank itself that needs replaced??
I'm not always in a hurry to do a job. If it works out, sometimes I'll start draining the tank on one vehicle while I'm finishing up another job. It does cut into my bullshit time but I make more money. <G>
Denny
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Correction - it was a 15? gallon tank in less than 1/2 hour. 1983? Toyota Supra. That is roughly 68 liters? Been a few years so I'm not 100% sure of the tank size.
The transfer unit used a roller cell type external EFI pump rated for something like 350HP or 150 liters per hour at 20 some PSI IIRC. Emptying the tank through the line was about 30% faster than through the access valve. Flipping a pair of valves on the unit and dropping the hose into the filler neck refueled the car in something like 20 minutes. Trying to suck the fuel out the access port with the valve installed was hopeless..
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only
Are you suggesting buying a 3rd pump so that you can drain the tank to eventually install the 2nd pump???

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wrote:

I'm talking about doing it in the shop, where safety regulations REQUIRE a fuel transfer pump/tank unit. I made the unit we used for about 6 years while I was service manager - and it may still be in use today. I left the dealership in question about 18 years ago

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When i worked at the dodge dealer, the way i removed the intank fuel pumps was not to drop the tank but raise the bed, the tank can be completly full and never dropped....remove the 6 15mm. bolts...leave the two back ones in but loosen them the ground strap and the three screws attaching the fuel neck to the body comes off, lower the truck with a jack stand under the bed , the bed goes up while the truck comes down, looks like a dump truck dropping a load when it is up Glenn Beasley Chrysler Tech

only
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Most of the LHS's pump are removed thru the trunk without disassembling the tank, i think the newer ones have the drain on the tanks, but not sure. and we were talking about Trucks, i was posting on that...

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Al Smith wrote:

http://popularmechanics.com/automotive/sub_care_sat/1997/12/replace_intank_f
I replied to another part of the thread already but will repeat here that the car my wife owns (2001 Impala) has an access door under the rear seat. Pull the seat and then unbolt the access door/cover and you can then remove the pump.
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Al Smith wrote:

Well, I suppose this means that you haven't heard about enough of them then. Even with dropping fuel tanks, most of them are not nearly as hard as you might think. You are comparing replacing an electric fuel pump that is "outside" the fuel tank to replacing one that is inside the fuel tank. I was thinking more along the lines of the older mechanical fuel pumps that were attached to the engine. These were far more common on domestic vehicles then inline external electric fuel pumps.
Many late model vehicles also have access panels in the trunk that make changing an electric fuel pump a 15 minute job. Most vehicles that I work on (GM), you can have the fuel tank out in 10 minutes.
Ian
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Al Smith wrote:

Yup, you are wrong.
Rob
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says...

Definitely wrong. I changed the in tank fuel pump on my 86 Dodge GLH-T three times. All I had to do was wait for the fuel level to drop low enough before I pulled it. I jakced up the right rear of the car and then pulled off the wheel. Then the fuel pump/sender assembly could be easily pulled out. Smart design. --------------- Alex
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And like any competent mechanic you disconnected the battery first, right? ;)
mike hunt
Alex Rodriguez wrote:

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Al Smith wrote:

Yup... it had little to nothing to do with the actual fuel pump - it was faulty tools and/or techniques.
Rob
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Perhaps if your degree was in electrical, rather than mechanical, engineering you might. One reason is liquids can not burn. By being inside the tank, there is no possibility of a combustible mixture or fire. If for example the electric fuel pump were outside the tank, in the line, there is a much greater probability of a combustible mixture occurring in the event of a fuel leak. OK?
mike hunt
Al Smith wrote:

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snipped-for-privacy@mailcity.com wrote:

Hi...
I'm electrical - but sure not interested in taking sides in this conversation.
I do have one question though that I'd like to ask if I may? When I have a quarter tank of fuel left, what exactly occupies the remaining space?
Ken
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Ken Weitzel wrote:

If I see where you're going with this, the inside of the fuel pump (where all the electrical commutation/sparking takes place) is 100% full of liquid fuel under all conditions. Missing only one ingredient for fire or explosion: air/oxygen. Comforting thought, eh?
To answer your question: air (but all the arcing and sparking is inside the pump with only liquid fuel).
Bill Putney (To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my adddress with the letter 'x')
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Bill Putney wrote:

Much more comforting that having the pump outside the tank where all of the ingredients are available. :-)
Matt
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Bill Putney wrote:

Hi Bill...
Sorry I started now. :)
How about at the final few minutes of running out of fuel?
How about turning on the ignition (running the pump for a few secs) when the tank is "empty" ?
How about a flaw in the diptube?
I'm gonna respectfully suggest that were I given a choice; I'd take a pump in the engine compartment (the other side of the firewall being a nice side effect bonus)
Ken
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wrote:

No O2, no burn.

Still no O2.

dibtube? Do you mean the fill neck? Hole in the fuel tank system can be dangerous, but you need to look at basic laws of physics, you may not be so worried.

The same sheet-metal that makes the "fire-wall" also separates you from the fuel tank.

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Due to the lawyers I don't believe we have firewalls any more...... that would insinuate that a fire is possible. They are now called bulkheads. Bob
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