Re: Mercedes-Benz hit with suit

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Nothing that heavy sound insulation can't cope with...

Old notions about Diesel engines still apply: slow to rev up, noisy and smelly when not warmed up, more expensive, heavier, etc.
I understand that with typical traffic patterns Diesel can be the only way Europeans can get a torquey engine, but it's more a symptom of the problem than a solution.
IMO, it's the same level of mindless popularity that SUVs get in the US: few need it, many want it. Analogously in Europe: few put so many miles to offset the higher acquisition cost of Diesel, many want it...
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See below.
DAS --
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In being of bellicose mind posted:

Let me cut to the quick..... What's left of the Brits with enough balls to really riot left for America over 200 yrs ago. ;-) You all keep voting for socialism and taxing yourselves into oblivion.
CO2 emission is just an abstract way the Greens have seduced everyone who fancies themselves "progressive" or and "enviromentalist" into turning against burning any fossil fuel.
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Philip wrote:

So Americans are better rioters than the British.
Hooray we are number one!

So its really just a smokescreen dreamed up by a political party.

I do not understand why people argue with Mr. Phillip. He clearly took Mr. Twain's advice.
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In being of bellicose mind posted:

I happen to enjoy Daneil N. Robinson too! ;-)
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Oh dear, oh DEAR!
Lombardy is in Italy. I am talking about rioting Italians.
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Dori Schmetterling wrote:

I admire the leadership exhibited by the British government. Calling for the termination of gasoline and diesel took courage.
Al Gore was right when he called for the death of internal combustion.
Lombardy should be applauded for stepping up and not going with the flow. It is the responsibility of the state to act in cases such as this and to not act is an abdication of the responsibility invested in the state by its people. The worst I can say is that their timetable may be too ambitious.
If we do move to a hydrogen based fuel system could we use hydrogen in a combustion engine as an interim step?
Anyway, great stuff from the article quoted below.
LONDON - The British government's chief science adviser has called for a complete ban on selling gasoline- or diesel-powered cars, reports the February 17 issue of "The Independent" here.
Prof. David King, who the article says is Prime Minister Tony Blair's chief scientific adviser, refused to pinpoint any date when such a ban should come into effect, but said "green" cars would soon be widely available, adding that major car and oil companies such as Ford, Chrysler (he obviously meant DaimlerChrysler), Shell and BP already have an "impressive" joint project to test various hydrogen-fueled cars in the United States.
In the initial article, King told the paper Britain should follow the example of Italy's Lombardy region, a heavily industrialized part of the country, which is to ban the sale of fossil-fuel powered cars beginning January 1, 2005. "I think we need a State of Lombardy-type statement from the UK," the paper quoted King as saying. "We need to be pressing for the economic drivers which are required to bring these technologies to Britain."
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In being of bellicose mind posted:

Al Gore spouts gibberish. Even his home state voted for Bush. LOL
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Philip wrote:

    Righty-o. If someone took the broccoli florets GHWBush wouldn't eat and rammed them up Owlgore's nostrils, he'd claim they were an air filter.

    Serve him right for treating the electorate like mushrooms - keeping us in the dark and feeding us BS.
-psmith         "Humans do not benefit the modern state" -P. J. O'Rourke
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The used value varies with region. As there is no demand for diesel cars in Calif I would expect trade-in values to be low.
Different situation in different countries and with diff models. A smaller-engined Merc diesel would retain its value rather well, especially if the model is suitable for taxi-type use.
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And other preventative maintenance work according to a schedule laid out by the manufacturer.
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Diesels cost about the same or more to buy than petrol-engined versions, but that may change, given that the premiums have come down.
As I mentioned earlier, a diesel engine in a small car with small engine is less worthwhile than in a big car with a big engine. And mileage matters, but that doesn't seem to deter buyers in the UK, where diesel fuel is no cheaper than petrol. The percentage of diesel-engined cars does vary from country to country but, as said before, even in the UK the percentage of diesel is rising fast. In some countries diesel accounts for more than 50% of new sales.
The people buying may be following a fad or may be deluding themselves, but they are buying.
Not quite relevant here but: in the 'old diesel' days the most reliable car bar none, over perhaps two years (or more?) , as determined by ADAC, Germany's largest motorists' and breakdown organisation, was a W123 200D.
And yes, some of this argument hinges around the wish to win the Traffic Lights Grand Prix, which may be greater in California -- mainly LA area, judging by the posts here ;-) . But not every American drives 25 000 miles or more a year and needs to get to 60 mph in under 5 seconds, which is why there are substantial sales of 'European' and 'Japanese-style' cars. You may not get lots of the 1400 and 1600 cc versions, but even so....
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In being of bellicose mind posted:

Kelly quotes for a 2004 Jetta TDI 5spd GL $19,245...... for gasoline version, $18,005. I'd put my money on there being greater discounts at the dealer to "move" TDIs here. (Calif).

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being of bellicose mind posted:

gasoline
Then you might well find the diesel to be no more expensive than the petrol ;-) Hooray!
Huw
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In being of bellicose mind

The point is the diesel Jetta retails for more than the comparable gasoline version. Our market will scarcely pay a dollar extra for a diesel either, hence the dealer discounts to get rid of them. Diesel cars are still the scourge of the American driving experience. Diesels have only sold well in pickup truck applications where fuel mileage using gasoline is below 10 MPGallon.
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being of bellicose mind

Indeed, automotive diesel applications in the USA were stymied back in the '70's by VW and GM, who rushed poorly developed converted gasoline engines to market. Before that, MB sold their trusty but slow diesels here to a hardy, iconoclastic few each year. That set the public mind to thinking diesels would be reliable and thrifty...WRONG!
While the VW engine had significant quality problems, they paled in comparison to GM. Millions of customers got stuck with what amounted to junk GM vehicles whose engines basically fell apart simply because they were run. GM spent millions replacing engines, even at one point converted some of the cars back to gasoline power if the customer demanded it. By the mid-80's GM was out of the diesel business and the public was too. Only a few zealots each year buy whatever diesel MB or VW might have to offer. BMW dabbled with a few cars, all of which were sales disasters.
VW's issues were less severe but similar. Blown head gaskets, cracked blocks that allowed oil into the cooling system were but two chronic issues that affected them from 77 - 82. By the time VW moved to solve the problems the perceptions of diesels being nothing but trouble killed the market in North America. VW added a turbo to their offerings in '83 which was a help, but too little, too late.
Worse than all of the above, in the early 80's, sensing a potential gold mine of profits the oil companies praised the price of diesel to that of regular unleaded, which meant the only savings one got was in MPG. Since diesel is basically the byproduct of one of the early stages of refining, and is basically nothing but kerosene, the public knew they were being ripped off. As diesels generally sold for a premium you had a dubious cost savings proposition, plus the negatives of poor performance, hard starting, noise, smell, etc.
These days the only diesels we see here are as you say, in very large pickups and utility vehicles which would otherwise get very poor mileage using gasoline. These things are the noisiest pieces of crap imaginable, causing many of us to ask for EU noise controls. Diesels??? NYET!!!!!
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Not so. It's not a by-product of refining. AAMOF, one would get more gallons of gas per oil barrell than of Diesel, being a heavier fuel. So much so that even though it's more efficient when used, it's lower yield per barrell offsets any gain that could come from that. IOW, that noone gets in illusions that fewer barrells would have to be bought from the Arabs were Diesel used more in cars.
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In

Ahem.... If anyone cares to see what's in a barrel of crude:
http://www.energy.ca.gov/gasoline/whats_in_barrel_oil.html
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That's the production output mix for fuels in volume, it doesn't even account for oleofins, for instance.
Diesel, being heavier than gasoline, requires more crude to obtain the same volume. IOW, the yield of Diesel from crude is lower than of gasoline.
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even
the
Yes but the total yield of all products is practically the same. Are we to conclude from your comment that you do indeed work for the US oil industry, either directly or indirectly?
Huw
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