Re: Mercedes-Benz hit with suit

Page 10 of 13  
Steady... the ex-Comecon countries aren't joining us till 2004...
However, one ex-Communist country did join the EU already, and that was over 10 years ago: East Germany. And, indeed, West Germany had to make
exceptions in clean-air legislation to allow the Trabants to continue on the roads...
DAS --
--
NB: To reply directly replace "nospam" with "schmetterling"
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

While in some large areas it's up to 2000ppm...

Can you?

Sure, like in CA when the average sulfur content is 140ppm???

I never said you didn't, but that you live in dirtier cities, thus your need for it.

Have they? Wher did you learn that? Show us. Your fictious statements have zero value.

My, you're amazingly paranoid...

And Portugal, Italy and France were until just recently part of the 3rd world, right?

Why answer a personal attack?

You may not be able to see it, but it shows...

If you're refering to stratified direct-injection gas engines, that's right, as I've already said before, but if you're referring to stoichiometric direct-injection gas engines, then your statement is wrong. Point in case, the 156 JTS.

EuroV allows for more polution from Diesel engines than from gas engines...

No, it's because you made no point.

And your lack therof.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
In

OUTSIDE of California, trucking companies with their own refueling terminals used to (they may still) dispose of their used crankcase oil into their diesel fuel.

I think the California CARB and SCAQMD and Federal EPA know this too.
--
* Philip

"I'm dreaming of a white Christmas,
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

It is well known that in Australia it has been fairly common for some fuel stations to dilute highly taxed road fuel with low taxed off-road fuel including heating oil to increase revenue illegally. This is not uncommon illegal practice everywhere. In the UK heating oil has recently had colour added to stop the practice which was done on an individual basis here. Some actually have been known to run their vehicles exclusively on heating oil with some super universal oil added. Those caught face severe official sanctions.
Huw
--
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com ).
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
In

Same thing here. Yellow for diesel #1 (off road only), green for diesel #2, and blue for "winterized" diesel #2. The sorry thing about this is 'winterized' diesel cut fuel mileage by 10-15% but ..... I could get the truck started when the normal formula would have gelled. I could always spot "polluted" fuel by looking at it during refueling. It would have a slightly India Ink hue. Can't say I noted a difference in the way the trucks performed.
--
* Philip

"I'm dreaming of a white Christmas,
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On Thu, 11 Dec 2003 09:31:07 -0000

(illegally of course)
snipped-for-privacy@evil.grin
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
In
Helar.... what kind of acid removes the native India Ink color of well used diesel crankcase oil (even when mixed with clean diesel fuel)? In California and much of the rest of the U.S., spot fuel contamination testing of truck stop diesel fuel is done by state government. Now... I don't recall ever seeing these same inspectors at private company truck terminals.
--
* Philip

"I'm dreaming of a white Christmas,
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On Fri, 12 Dec 2003 16:38:24 GMT

Don't know what you guys use at the other end of the world but this colouring agent that Neste and Statoil use to mark the fuel can be uncoloured quite easily. There was a case where an elderly man filled the tank at a no-name gas station. After a week he went to his garage to repair the fuel system of his car because it was eaten up by the acid in the fuel (by the investigation reports later). He lost consciousness because of the vapours, fell on the pit floor and in two hours 1/3 of his body got acid burns before his wife found him (dead). The owner of the gas station got his penalties for selling bootleg fuel, not because of selling "acidized fuel".
Another method is to leave the marked fuel into the sunshine for several days. The dye loses its colour this way too.
Helar
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
In wrote:

Helar: Am I to accept as your answer that you do not know the specific acid that REMOVES the India Ink color of USED CRANKCASE OIL when this used engine oil is dumped into clean diesel fuel? OBVIOUSLY whatever acid is used to remove the various required dyes is detectable and I assure you is part of the fuel purity tests that 'we' run at random at truck truck stops, particularly in California.
--
* Philip

"I'm dreaming of a white Christmas,
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

MTBE is not only more toxic ....but has embarrassed more than a few state/fed regulators with its ability to go right thru the fiberglass tank walls that were required to clean???? up on fuel seepage and leaks.During the big service station tank swap period And has caused a bigger problem in the ground water than sulfur has in the air. The stuff is worse than the lead compound it replaced ,but then Chevron knew that when they patented its production.

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

These are different figures to ones you used elsewhere. The actual maximum in most of the USA is 0.05% Sulphur by weight IIRC which is indeed 500ppm. Ultra low sulphur fuel, which is the ONLY road diesel available in the UK has 10ppm on average From 2005 zero sulphur diesel fuel will be available. Australia has fuel with a maximum of 50ppm
The UK and most of Western Europe is now using ultra low sulphur fuel, having used low sulphur fuel for a number of years. The USA will not have ULS fuel generally available until 2006 at the earliest
US and Canadian fuel does vary markedly in sulphur content from quite low in California to very high from some Exxon refineries in the North. Paradoxically it will be these high sulphur refineries which will be first with low sulphur fuel and updating these is now at a fairly advanced stage.
Most of the biggest countries in the EU, like France and

No one uses this level of fuel contamination in Western Europe AFAIK. It has only been available for off highway equipment for the best part of a decade in the UK.
What is it with you and facts? Are you so insecure that you have to be bigger and better at everything? It is rather childish to claim that our diesel is as dirty as yours when it is plainly not. Again I have to ask why you appear to be an apologist for your oil industry? Are you employed by them as a propagandist?

Yes indeed. The latest ones from certain manufacturers are about at the same level. Older diesels produce more particulates of a greater size. There is nothing to hide. Do you think I would deny that older generation diesels and some in current production produce more soot? I am not an apologist for anything or anyone LOL.

Not compared with latest direct injection petrol engines they don't.

Benzene in diesel is at a trace level at most. Benzene in petrol is also on the decline but is certainly still a fairly major constituent of the fuel and needs some trick vacuum nozzles to prevent it poisoning the driver filling the tank LOL.
No, there are

So methane is not toxic? Is MTBE biodegradable? No. Is it an aid to leaching? Yes. Is it confirmed as a major polluter which is being cleared up at the cost of billions? Yes.

Slight error there. Only of spelling accuracy though, not of fact.

Short of land and food in the USA are you? ROTFLOL.

Another set of fatuous and plain silly statements. Not one of the questions answered though.

It was well known decades before it was phased out. It was also known for decades that it was not needed in the fuel. It was only forced out by legislation which also phased in the catalytic converter.

Do you mean 'revisionism'? I had to point that out in view of you being such a stickler and all that LOL
Again your defence of what is known to be facts is amazing. You must be employed in a PR role, either directly or indirectly by the oil industry. Trying to discredit information is the basic tactic of the propagandist. Let me tell you that your attempts are pathetically amateurish.

I am doing quite well it seems. Well enough to get you to make quite absurd assertions and trying to deflect the argument at every turn.

Philip will confirm that it is *your* facts[LOL] which are not facts at all. What does that make them?
Huw
--
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com ).
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

These are different figures to ones you used elswhere and are even more inaccurate. The UK and most of Europe is now using ultra low sulphur fuel, having used low sulphur fuel for a number of years. The USA will not have ULS fuel generally available until 2006 at the earliest
Most of the biggest countries in the EU, like France and

No one uses this level of fuel contamination in Western Europe AFAIK. It has only been available for off highway equipment for the best part of a decade in the UK.
What is it with you and facts? Are you so insecure that you have to be bigger and better at everything? It is rather childish to claim that our diesel is as dirty as yours when it is plainly not. Again I have to ask why you appear to be an appologist for your oil industry? Are you employed by them as a propogandist?

Yes indeed. The latest ones from certain manufacturers are about at the same level. Older ones produced more particulates of a greater size. There is nothing to hide. Do you think I would deny that older generation deisels and some in current production produce more soot? I am not an appologist for anything LOL.

Not compared with latest direct injection petrol engines they don't.

Benzene in diesel is at a trace level at most. Benzene in petrol is also on the decline but is certainly still a fairly major constituent of the fuel and needs some trick vacuum nozzles to prevent it poisoning the driver filling the tank LOL.
No, there are

So methane is not toxic? Is MTBE biodegradable? No. Is it an aid to leaching? Yes. Is it confirmed as a major polluter which is being cleared up at the cost of billions? Yes.

Slight error there. Only of spelling accuracy though, not of fact.

Short of land and food in the USA are you? ROTFLOL.

Another set of fatuous and plain silly statements. Not one of the questions answered though.

It was well known decades before it was phased out. It was also known for decades that it was not needed in the fuel. It was only forced out by legistlation which also phased in the catalytic converter.

Do you mean 'revisionism'? I had to point that out in view of you being such a stickler and all that LOL
Again your defence of what is known to be facts is amazing. You must be employed in a PR role, either directly or indirectly by the oil industry. Trying to discredit information is a basic tactic. Let me tell you that your attempts are pathetically ameteurish.

I am doing quite well it seems. Well enough to get you to make quite absurd assertions and trying to deflect the arguement at every turn.

Philip will confirm that it is *your* facts[LOL] which are not facts at all. What does that make them?
Huw
--
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com ).
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
In wrote:

Depends on where you take your exhaust sample. If taken at the tail pipe .... gasoline way cleaner. Taken ahead of the catalyst, there is room for some discussion but gasoline still has the edge.
--
* Philip

"I'm dreaming of a white Christmas,
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
wrote:

Total pollution is worst from petrol. Especially when considered over the longer term because diesel exhaust emission remains steady over a sustained period whereas petrol engine emissions deteriorate steadily over a lifetime. Also I believe you are still comparing your dirty old fuel with petrol whereas I am comparing modern engines with clean fuel which your country apparently cannot produce yet ROTFLMAO. I believe that BO has pulled the wool over your eyes yet again on this one, don't you think?
Huw
--
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com ).
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
In

How many pollutants are up for discussion? I only have recent diesel and gasoline with our California fuels in mind. I know... you're just checking.
CO, HC, NOx, CO2, particulates ... and whatever else are "they" tracking? ;-)
What is meant by "BO?"
--
* Philip

"I'm dreaming of a white Christmas,
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Biological Odour and Big Oil.
Huw
--
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com ).
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On Sunday, November 30, 2003 4:59 PM [GMT+1T],

What the EPA has to say about 2003 model VW TDI http://www.epa.gov/autoemissions/E-VOLKSWAGEN-Jetta-03.htm
Ditto a 2003 H2 Hummer http://www.epa.gov/autoemissions/E-HUMMER-H2-03.htm
Land Rover Range Rover. 2003 http://www.epa.gov/autoemissions/E-LANDROVER-RangeRover-03.htm
Corolla 2003 http://www.epa.gov/autoemissions/E-TOYOTA-Corolla-03.htm
And the best of the lot for 2004.... http://www.epa.gov/autoemissions/all-rank-04.htm
* Philip
"I'm dreaming of a white Christmas, Just like the ones I used to know" -Bing Crosby
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

It's useless to argue with Huw. Especially when it's the EPA saying anything, which means that it's part of the vast right-wing American conspiracy to take over the world of merry left-green-wing Europeans... :-D
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
In

I've had a go 'round or two with Huw. If you can separate his politics from lubricated nuts and bolts, he's a pretty well read fella.
--
* Philip

"I'm dreaming of a white Christmas,
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
snipped-for-privacy@sonic.net (Timothy J. Lee) wrote in message

Gas engines not so much more of these pollutants than Diesel engines as these do others more concerning pollutants as irritant NOx and carcinogenic particulates, which are particularly more intense closer to the ground than CO and HC.
No wonder many European cities ban cars circulation in one way or another...
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Related Threads

    Motorsforum.com is a website by car enthusiasts for car enthusiasts. It is not affiliated with any of the car or spare part manufacturers or car dealers discussed here. All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.