Re: R.I.P. General Motors (1931-2006)

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mike, It's possible that GM is sells more cars than any other company. Even if this is true, it's only because they make so many types of cars and trucks. A better carparison would be to compare each GM model to similar models made by Honda and Toyota
For example--compare the 4 door Civic to a 4 door GM car that is almost identical to the 4 door Civic. Be honest--do you think the GM car is superior to the Civic? Also, if you compare the sales figures--do you think the GM car or the Civic would win that contest?
Jason
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My response was to the statement that Toyota and Honda makes better cars. What I said was that was not reflected in the sales numbers, since GM sells more cars than Toyota and Honda. GM still sells more cars than anybody. Many people believe what they see in ads. Toyota is advertising they are the number one car brand, that is true but Chevrolet is the number one BRAND name, that includes cars and trucks since American have been buying more trucks than cars for the past five years. Ford is the number two BRAND name. Toyotas growth over the past five years, like every other manufacture, has been in trucks and SUVs sales in Toyota and Lexus and the addition of Scion. Camry sales were actually down in 2005.
I'm simply trying to set the record straight. Toyota is advertising they have been the number one car in the US, that is true but GM, Ford and Chrysler have individual vehicles that sell in far greater numbers. When it come to who sells what in the US GM is number one, Ford number two, Chrysler number three and Toyota and Honda a distant fourth and fifth. Toyota Motor (Sales) Company sold only around 11% of the 16,500,000 vehicles sold in the US in 2005. Honda less than 8% The ultimate indicator of who makes the best, among its pears in any segment, is the total annual sales period.
mike hunt
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On Sun, 2 Apr 2006 20:47:02 -0400, "Mike Hunter"

DC sold         2,304,833 vehicles in 2005 Toyota sold    2,260,296 vehicles in 2005
Doesn't look like a "distant" fourth to me.
Not that it matters. Honda is making lots of money. Toyota is poised to take over as the biggest vehicle maker in the world. DC, well that's really a German company now so it is hard to see why it is even considered part of the Big 3. It will be even harder when Toyota passes it in sales next year.
For now, GM and Ford are losing money on every car they sell but making it up on volume. Five years from now you may barely recognize them.
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The US market in 2005 was 16,500,000 and Chrysler had 2% more of the market than Toyota according to the Commerce Department figures.
Perhaps you are wasting you time hanging out in the NGs, you should by buying lottery tickets and stocks or better yet get into the commodities market with all of your insight. LOL
mike hunt
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On Mon, 3 Apr 2006 10:01:47 -0400, "Mike Hunter"

Here is my source. Where is yours?
http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/060104/auto_sales_table.html?.v=2
DC sold about 2% more cars than Toyota last year (2,304,833 vs 2,260,296) but their market share was virtually identical.

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wrote:

You got 'em Mike. And that's why GM and Ford and DC are on easy street and Rick Wagoner sleeps like a baby each night.
Oh wait, they are supposed to be in the business of making money, not just pushing iron out the door with little or no profit (because they need to bribe their customers so much to buy almost anything they make). Ah, a minor point.
Nevertheless, as you rightly point out, for argument sake the only thing that really matters is just total vehicle sales numbers which clearly define which are the best brands and vehicles.
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No it is total vehicle sales numbers clearly defines which vehicles the most numbers of BUYER believe are the best brands and the best vehicles on which to spend their hard earned money. Most buyers could not car less if the dealer or the manufacture is making a profit. Only the Toyota and other import brand buyer, that are willing to spend 20% or 30% more to buy an average vehicle, who want to insure the dealer or the manufacture is making a profit. The same folks that spend their days in the NG trying to convince others to be stupid enough to get screwed like they did LOL
mike hunt
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Mike Hunter wrote:

What? I have no idea where you're getting that 'information' from. 20-30% more? Are you making this stuff up as you go along?
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Reality and truth have never stopped Mikey from pursuit of his goal of defending domestics at any cost.
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If you do not believe you will spend at least 20% more to drive home an import, I would suggest you actually go out in the real world and get comparable total drive home prices on the same size and equipped domestic and imports then get back to us
mike hunt
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Mike Hunter wrote:

I've done that several times. My conclusion? You're flat out wrong. Throw in the added benefit of better reliability with the import and it's an even better bargain.
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That my be your opinion but you can't prove it by me. I have never owned an import that was any more reliable or better then what I now buy and I am paying a lot less to drive them home.
mike hunt

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Jim Higgins wrote:

That's been my impression too.
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Lee Florack wrote:

He has been saying that kind of thing for ages. Not long ago I used carsdirect.com (a good reference for real transaction prices) to compare a Saturn minivan against a similarly equipped Toyota. The Toyota was a little cheaper.
Mikey just makes up that 20%-30% line.
Now if you are talking about used cars, then he has a point. The mucher more rapid depreciation of most GM/Ford/Chrysler branded automobiles compared to Toyotas and Honda does indeed result in a 20%-30% price premium for the late model used car buyer.
John
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John Horner wrote:

I'm sure he'll find a way to use those stats to try and convince us that the reason that the rapid depreciation, fire-sale tactics and lower used car prices are absolute proof that GM/Ford/Chrysler cars are indeed better.
I know, I know it means the exact opposite, but he'll try....
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Obviously you have not been in the market for a new car lately, right? LOL
mike hunt

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Mike Hunter wrote:

Does four new vehicles since 2002 meet your criteria for recent purchases?
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I like to address a subject in general terms and not get personal but you must be like me, I have owned eight since I switched from imports to domestics in 1999, but if what you say is true then you should know what I said is true as well. Unless of course if you don't shop more than one brand. I did that with Lexus until I got smart and shopped around and found I could drive home a domestic for over 20K less. In fact when I bought my first domestic, which proved to be just as good as the Lexus' I had been buying, with the money I saved I bought a second vehicle from the same dealer
mike hunt

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Mike, You may want to check the resale value of the Lexus compared to your cars. You will find that the Lexus has a much better resale value. The reason is simple: most everyone in America knows that Lexus is far superior to cars made by American companies. If you want to convert the figures to percentages--feel free to do so. Jason
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Lee Florack wrote:

LOL. The top-poster makes an ass of himself yet again.
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