Re: R.I.P. General Motors (1931-2006)

Please post properly so we can tell who you are replying to.

Reply to
Eugene Nine
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It is still an illusion since it is not true. Look at any survey of the auto indistry. The failure rate is around 2% for ALL manufactues, within the first five years or 75K, which means 98% of all the others among them will not have a failure. EVERY manufacture makes some that are not up to snuff. That is why they all have a warranty even RR. ;)

mike hunt

Reply to
Mike Hunter

No it is total vehicle sales numbers clearly defines which vehicles the most numbers of BUYER believe are the best brands and the best vehicles on which to spend their hard earned money. Most buyers could not car less if the dealer or the manufacture is making a profit. Only the Toyota and other import brand buyer, that are willing to spend 20% or 30% more to buy an average vehicle, who want to insure the dealer or the manufacture is making a profit. The same folks that spend their days in the NG trying to convince others to be stupid enough to get screwed like they did LOL

mike hunt

Reply to
Mike Hunter

What? I have no idea where you're getting that 'information' from. 20-30% more? Are you making this stuff up as you go along?

Reply to
Lee Florack

mike, Be honest, what are the three best selling cars in America? The Toyota Camry or the Honda Accord is usually number 1--almost every year. The reason that GM cars sell so well in America is because of their low prices and special discounts. Jason

Reply to
Jason

Reality and truth have never stopped Mikey from pursuit of his goal of defending domestics at any cost.

Reply to
Jim Higgins

Do you really believe that people here believe your lies? What illegal substance are you smoking? The only people that get screwed are people who buy Fords and GMs.

You are truly a close-minded elitist and bigot who has bone to pick with the Japanese and are too indolent to face the facts.

Apparently, as a personal penis pinata by GM and Ford executives, you spend your days in newsgroups trying to convince people deluded enough to buy the same piece of garbages that you do. As the saying goes, misery loves company.

Reply to
Viperkiller

He has been saying that kind of thing for ages. Not long ago I used carsdirect.com (a good reference for real transaction prices) to compare a Saturn minivan against a similarly equipped Toyota. The Toyota was a little cheaper.

Mikey just makes up that 20%-30% line.

Now if you are talking about used cars, then he has a point. The mucher more rapid depreciation of most GM/Ford/Chrysler branded automobiles compared to Toyotas and Honda does indeed result in a 20%-30% price premium for the late model used car buyer.

John

Reply to
John Horner

You're the one who is insane. GM and Ford have laid off workers so they can have them assembled in other countries. They take advantage of the lower cost so they can compensate themselves with bigger bonuses and stock options while laying off blue collar workers.

GM and Ford do sell more than Toyotas. So what? That does not make them better vehicles. McDonalds sells more food than any 5-star restaurants. Does that mean that their food is better? Only lunatics believe so.

Study after study show that Toyotas have better reliability than GM and Ford. Only those with single-digit IQ's deny that.

Reply to
Viperkiller

Apparently more buyers think the vehicles sold by GM, Ford and Chrysler, in the same price range think so, that is why they buy more of them.

Are the folks that are willing to pay $10 for a burger in one of those

5-Star restaurants, as smart a buyer as the guy that buys one from McDonalds for $1? When it comes to vehicles more buyers realize they need not spend so much more for an import that is in the real world no better? LOL

mike hunt

Reply to
Mike Hunter

All manufactures offer rebates and other incentives, those offered by Toyota currently on 2006 models, are higher than on some similar GM and Ford models. You are saying the Camry is the number one selling car therefore more buyers must think it is the best buy for their money, in that respect you are correct. You reference is to individual brand names, GM sells more cars then Toyota but with different brand names, therefore they must be better in the minds of those that buy them.

Why it OK to say Toyota and Honda have the best cars because they sell more but not to say GM, Ford and Chrysler are the better because they sell more in total than Toyota or Honda? Conversely, using that logic, the Civic is the best small car to most buyers, since they buy more of them. The Camry is the best mid size car, to most buyers, since they buy more of them. Buick sells the most full size cars so they must be the best. The Escape is the best small SUV, to most buyers, since they buy more of them. The Explorer has been the best mid size SUV, to most buyers, since they buy more of them. The Chevy Suburban is the best large SUV, to most buyers, since they buy more of them. Dodge must sell the best full size van for most buyers, since they buy more of them. The Ford Econoline must be the best full size van, to most buyers, since they buy more of them. The Ford F Series is the best line of light truck, to most buyers, since they buy more of them. The Ford F150 is the best individual truck, to most buyers, since they buy more of them, more than any single vehicle on the market today and has been for nearly 30 years. The best selling car, the Camry does not even sell at half the rate of the F150.

mike hunt

Reply to
Mike Hunter

If you do not believe you will spend at least 20% more to drive home an import, I would suggest you actually go out in the real world and get comparable total drive home prices on the same size and equipped domestic and imports then get back to us

mike hunt

Reply to
Mike Hunter

Obviously you have not been in the market for a new car lately, right? LOL

mike hunt

Reply to
Mike Hunter

That's been my impression too.

Reply to
Lee Florack

I'm sure he'll find a way to use those stats to try and convince us that the reason that the rapid depreciation, fire-sale tactics and lower used car prices are absolute proof that GM/Ford/Chrysler cars are indeed better.

I know, I know it means the exact opposite, but he'll try....

Reply to
Lee Florack

I've done that several times. My conclusion? You're flat out wrong. Throw in the added benefit of better reliability with the import and it's an even better bargain.

Reply to
Lee Florack

Does four new vehicles since 2002 meet your criteria for recent purchases?

Reply to
Lee Florack

Mike, You made some great points. One of the main reasons that GM sells so many cars in America is related to the price of many of the models. For example, if a person planned to buy a new car and only made about $25,000 per year--that person would probably buy a GM Metro LSI instead of a Honda Civic. However, that same person would probably have preferred to buy the Honda Civic. It's for these same reasons that Walmart is number 1 in their field. Jason

Reply to
Jason

I have said all along that import buyer are paying 20% to 30% more to drive home the vehicles they choose. I think it is foolish to pay that much more for any vehicle that one thinks may be majority better when there are so many others that are as good or better that can be driven home for less. Apparently more buyer think that way as well since GM, Ford and Chrysler sell more vehicles in the US than any import. When I was in retail the last question asked by the buyer before signing on the dotted line was, "How much is my monthly payment?' ;)

mike hunt

Reply to
Mike Hunter

I like to address a subject in general terms and not get personal but you must be like me, I have owned eight since I switched from imports to domestics in 1999, but if what you say is true then you should know what I said is true as well. Unless of course if you don't shop more than one brand. I did that with Lexus until I got smart and shopped around and found I could drive home a domestic for over 20K less. In fact when I bought my first domestic, which proved to be just as good as the Lexus' I had been buying, with the money I saved I bought a second vehicle from the same dealer

mike hunt

Reply to
Mike Hunter

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