Some General Motors vehicles outrank Toyota's

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Only in your word is that true LOL
mike


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What the heck are you talking about?
You made an absurd statement citing a non-existent J.D. Power survey result. You were asked to supply a link to this survey. You provided precisely nothing...because your statement was spun out of hot air and nothing more and you cannot provide any support for it.
Cut it out Mike!
No one is buying it.

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snipped-for-privacy@nospam.nix wrote:

Seriously, I have a couple friends with Elantras and they love them to death. I have never driven one so I can't say whether a "car guy" would find one appealing or not, but the price and warranty is hard to beat. A friend's wife just got a new one, the interior is best described as "bargain basement VW-esque" which really isn't all bad. It could pass for a VW except the materials are just a little cheaper-feeling and appearing. This probably won't be welcome news to most readers of this newsgroup, but it is a lot less Spartan and uninviting than that of my Impala...
nate
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This probably won't be welcome news to

I will let you know tomorrow what we think of the Azera..
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A little bit less than totally relevant, because our Hyundai is an '04 and the '06's are a new styling, but we do have one in our garage. It was hard for a dyed in the wool GM guy to make a non-GM purchase, but I had rented a ton of Hyundai's while traveling for my job. (That's one of the ways I use to help decide what I might buy when I'm in the market).
I bought our Hyundai for my wife and it's an '04 Sonata GLS. Very nice car. Unbelievable power out of a little 2.7L motor. Unbelievable. The car is well built and extremely quiet and smooth to drive. In fact, every time I get in to drive the car I am amazed at how smooth the ride is.
The seats are not what I'm used to in a GM though. They are harder and they don't have the same support for your thighs that a GM seat has. They aren't uncomfortable in any way, but the feel is different and it takes getting used to. I prefer the GM feel much more. Other than the feel of the seats, the interior of her car is what I call "very Buick-esq". It just looks and feels like you're in a Buick when you climb into the cabin.
Pre-2006 Hyundai Sonatas (not sure of the rest of the fleet) used a timing belt instead of a chain in the engine. Since these are interference engines, you have to change the belt every 60,000 miles. For car guys, it's a Saturday project. Hyundai is very good about honoring warranty if work is done by someone other than a Hyundai, but wants to see genuine Hyundai parts used in the repair to keep the warranty alive. If you take the car to a dealer for the belt changes, costs range anywhere between $350-$800 for parts and labor on this job, depending on where you live in the country. These costs typically cover the timing belt, idler, water pump (since they are working under the timing cover, these are often replaced as a matter of practice, not because the warranty requires it), and the exterior belts - since they have to come off anyway.
I only detailed that little tid-bit for the sake of putting what I consider to be the biggest maintenance issue of our Hyundai out on the table. Again - beginning in '06 some if not all of the Hyundai motors went to a timing chain, so this piece of work isn't even necessary with them. But in the grand scheme of things, that is really not a killer maintenance requirement every 60,000 miles.
All in all the Sonata is a fine car - a great car when you consider what you get for the price. You'll leave thousands in the savings account that you would have spent on any other brand - Toyota included. I took my wife out for a test drive in an Elantra when we bought the Sonata. Not the same class of car. Think Cavalier.
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Your impression will be interesting. I know of the Hyundai of some years back that was a horrid pile of rust. While they have improved greatly, my perception is that I'm not ready to spend $27,000 for one yet, but I may be wrong.
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wrote in message

They've changed a great deal Edwin. Like I said in a previous post, it took a lot to get a dyed in the wool GM guy like me to buy one, but there is one in my garage now. It sits among 4 GM vehicles, but it's there. Don't take that full $27,000 to the dealership when you go to buy that car though. Street prices on these cars is significantly less than sticker.
There's actually a fairly frank and honest environment over in alt.autos.hyundai. Lots of free discussion among owners and prospective owners of different Hyundai models. I'd suggest a brief visit over to there for some looks at what people are thinking of the newer Hyundai's.
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A few years ago, they apparently had the technology and the prestige of a Lada. We'll see.
The Dallas auto ads in last weeks paper had the Azera, which is -I guess- the top of the line, at a little over $21,000
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All a lot cheaper than ony other import as well ;)
mike hunt

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Well, the test drive is over, and I'll have to say that the Hyundai Azera is very impressive.
Workmanship and materials look very good, the ride is smooth and quiet, and the power from the V6 3.7 litre engine is ample.
It appears to be quite a nice car.
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Now your task will be to find a dealer that is not going to add a bunch of smoke and mirrors to the drive home price ;)
mike hunt

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HLS, reading between the lines, I'd suggest that your comments seem a bit less than enthusiastic. (It appears to be quite a nice car.) When the average person gets excited about a car, we tend to hear superlatives, such as "amazing" or "great". You probably found out that there wasn't a lot of truth to the "claim in the latest Popular Science that the Azera is a fine car...a 'budget Lexus'." Other than having four wheels, there really isn't much to compare to the Lexus. Tastes in automotive styling are completely subjective and the Azera is quite frankly...really bland, IMHO.
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You read correctly. I cannot put my finger on it, and the car has nothing that I can complain about.
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snipped-for-privacy@nospam.nix wrote:

But using Mike Hunter logic, that must mean it's still a good car. After all, that's the way a lot of us feel about new GM products (other than the obvious mistakes) and he still keeps telling us we ought to buy them because they are so great. Which is exactly the point I was trying to make by bringing up Hyundai.
For a personal vehicle, I'd still buy a Hyundai before a GM product though. And that's coming from someone who pretty much comes from an all-GM-buying family; my dad bought his '67 Cutlass new and drove the wheels off the damn thing. If I could buy a new one of those, I'd be burning rubber down to my local Olds dealer instead of typing this message.
nate
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snipped-for-privacy@nospam.nix wrote:

Then it really depends on where you are in life and what suits your needs or your family's needs. A bland car that provides all round good service and reliability is sometimes a practical solution to ones needs. There are times to buy flash and performance and there are times to trend to the practical side. i.e. What's the best deal for the car I need at this point in my life?
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wrote:

Well, for me, the most pleasing car I have driven was the Passat.
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snipped-for-privacy@nospam.nix wrote:

*shudder*
I *LOVE* VW's but by all accounts the Passat is pretty much a disaster.
Have you considered a Jetta instead? They're almost as big and much more reliable.
nate
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Nate Nagel wrote:

That's a fact Nate! Talk about poor quality.

All indications are that Jettas are much more reliable and I find it rather odd that there can be such a difference between somewhat similar looking models.

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I share the shudder... Had I not checked out the same accounts, I would have probably already bought. Passat is probably not in my immediate future. If VW wanted to, they could whip the reliability and customer relations problems in a flash and get on with business...I get the impression that they have management constipation just like GM.
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Other than a ridiculously high price, what is so special about an over-priced Toyota? Toyota literally defines "boring over priced sedan." Lexus is just the nth degree of the genre. At least the Azera is cheaper.
Ed
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