Sports Sedan

Matched Chevy's quality? That would be a giant leap backwards for most, if not all, of the models you listed.

Reply to
Jeff Strickland
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That's a joke, right?

I once owned an '85 Chevy that was hands-down the very worst car I have ever owned. I drove an early '70s Pinto company car that was better than my mid-size Chevy. I bought an '82 Honda Accord that could literally blow the doors off my High Output Chevy V6. The Honda was both quicker and had a better top end. And, it could get out of its own way, an attribute not shared by my Chevy.

Reply to
Jeff Strickland

reliability

kinda ot here too, but what about the porsche improved harley v-rod engine?

Reply to
Ron

chevy...for a bargin price you can get an old school impala SS with the corvette engine. it will last you 300k, never break and blow the doors off the euro cars listed. i have one and its much better than the bmw 540i my coworker has, smoother, more torque and will throw you back into your seat like the space shuttle. i owned a mercedes e320 shortly and i was dissopointed in the performance and quality, i'll go with the impala ss anyday over that...its a real drivers car.

Reply to
fickle toad

It just amuses the hell out of me how the same troll keeps talking to himself using its different "personalities" to perpetuate its original nonsense. Just compare the headers, for laughs:

-------------------------- From: "ted neon" Newsgroups: alt.autos.bmw,alt.autos.audi,alt.autos.gm,alt.auto.mercedes Subject: Sports Sedan Date: Mon, 5 Apr 2004 20:32:39 -0500 Organization: CompuServe Interactive Services Lines: 7 Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: user-33qtslk.dialup.mindspring.com X-Trace: ngspool-d02.news.aol.com 1081215167 16451 199.174.242.180 (6 Apr

2004 01:32:47 GMT) X-Complaints-To: snipped-for-privacy@compuserve.com NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2004 01:32:47 +0000 (UTC) X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Xref: attbi_master61 alt.autos.bmw:92574 alt.autos.audi:28767 alt.autos.gm:38623 alt.auto.mercedes:58863

--------------------------------------- From: "fickle toad" Newsgroups: alt.autos.bmw,alt.autos.audi,alt.autos.gm,alt.auto.mercedes Subject: Re: Sports Sedan Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2004 21:24:27 -0500 Organization: CompuServe Interactive Services Lines: 21 Message-ID: References: NNTP-Posting-Host: user-33qtv25.dialup.mindspring.com X-Trace: ngspool-d02.news.aol.com 1081304671 3574 199.174.252.69 (7 Apr 2004

02:24:31 GMT) X-Complaints-To: snipped-for-privacy@compuserve.com NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 02:24:31 +0000 (UTC) X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Xref: attbi_master61 alt.autos.bmw:92663 alt.autos.audi:28847 alt.autos.gm:38677 alt.auto.mercedes:58962

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Don't feed the trolls. Please.

Reply to
Victor Bazarov

This is a pretty funny thread... But just wanted to add to the comments on S4- not sporty enough... Thats just silly! If we are talking about the new one.. Um. NO. If we are talking about the 2000-2002 model.. Um. NO. Best thing about the turbo ones, is cheap and easy to modify. Loads of performance in there....

Cheers,

Adam

Reply to
Adam Schwartz

Yes

Reply to
Bernard Farquart

But it does! I drove a Chevrolet Cavalier loaner on my last trip to the US, and I have to say the build quality of that all-American car outshone that of the overpriced, underpowered German. Just look at the efficiency and design of the centre console - one single, unpainted, plastic injection moulding all the way from the radio to the ashtray for the rear seats! Guaranteed no squeaks. The world-class 2.2 litre engine was also smooth and economical. I have to say BMW has not routinely matched Chevrolet quality, probably because it doesn't need to: the BMW is only sold in about four markets, and the Impala in about 80.

Oh hang on, it's the other way around... damn! :)

Reply to
Andrew Thomas

You're right of course.. just a troll.. but look how it has awakened others..

Reply to
Mike

For reasons I won't mention here (unless he wants me to), I think Matt knows better. Otherwise, your response is the same as mine would be. The JD Power survey of *initial* customer satisfaction asks people who

*bought them* if they're satisfied with their cars. Well, *duh*!

Your average GM customer seems to me to be a helluva lot more tolerant of crappy quality than some of the typical Audi/BMW/Benz/(fill-in-high-buck-car-here) whiners we see here. Not that that's a good or bad thing, but it *does* skew the results. A Chevy buyer will normally be satisfied if the dealership promptly fixes things while a significant percentage of A-B-B-? buyers expect their cars to be perfect and tolerate no less before complaining about it - especially to JD Power.

In addition, damn few of them have ever actually bothered to *compare* the different makes or they'd instantly realize (as I did when I sat down in a 600-mile brand new Cavalier rental last year) that there are

*other* things in a car that constitute 'quality' than simply getting one dependably from one place to another. *Comfort*, for one. *Performance* for another. A couple of good reasons I'll buy BMWs old enough to have their own driver's licenses. ;^)

-- C.R. Krieger (More rust than that)

Reply to
C.R. Krieger

JD offers multiple surveys, only one of them is the initial quallity survey. They also have a dependability survey and GM does rather well there as well.

I do not work for JD (nor have I ever worked with them), but as someone that works in the data analysis industry, they are respected and their survey methods are scientific and proper. I have noticed that whenever someone is unhappy about the results of their "favorite" in a survey Mark Twain's "lies" quote (or a variation thereoff) comes out.

Before someone gets too excited, I do not own a GM vehicle, the closest I ever got to one was when I had a GM engine in an AMC Jeep. Like it or not, GM has consistently got good results in JD and other surveys - I would argue that this is proof enough that their build quality is competitive in the industry and not the joke people try to make.

IIRC, when Japanese cars got the good results in the 70's and 80's - the same attitude was relevant against their quality because of previous results. I guess that there is always a lag between quality and percieved quality.

Unless you can provide a scientific study that proves this, it is nothing more than a theory. I would argue that the percieved value for purchase price might skew the results somewhat, but scientific surveys that use proven statistical tools always provide a margin of error and a degree of confidence in the results. From what I have seen about the JD dependability surveys, they are using the same standards used in the industry for non critical applications.

Ron.

Reply to
Ron Loewy

When car enthusiasts go to hell, they are given a Cavalier to drive.

Reply to
dizzy

What do you expect, in a country where most people think GW Bush is doing a good job?

Reply to
dizzy

Ok, that's *two* things we agree on!

/daytripper '00 s4 spd. Keep agreeing with me and you'll take all the fun out of it ;-)

Reply to
daytripper

Are you sure? I thought they got Ford Pintos and were made to have rear end collisions!

nospam

Reply to
NoSpam

Wait a minute! If you remember correctly, based on numbers alone Al Gore won.. Yes its true.. Al Gore won the popular vote. But unfortunately, that wasnt good enough... GW still won the electoral college vote

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I for one was mad.

In addition, GW's approval rating is falling.

The original comment was a wise ass trying to get a rise just for fun of it...

Oh well..

-A

Reply to
Adam Schwartz

There is nothing "scientific" about these surveys. They are merely surveys with no control group. No hypothesis. Nothing suggesting a scientific method.

Yes they are. They are all equally flawed.

-Fred W

Reply to
Fred W.

What's the other thing?

Reply to
dizzy

Damned if I can remember. And Google is no help in the matter...

/daytripper '00 s4 6spd. Nevermind. We'll keep it at just the one thing ;-)

Reply to
daytripper

It is a survey conducted using a proper SRS. What do you need a control group for if you have no motive to prove a theorem (or hypothesis)? Once you take a large enough sample you can use scientific methods to create a confidence interval. Hypothesis testing is just one use for the statistical methods used in surveys like these.

Anyway, how are you going to have a control group? Sell people placebo cars that just look like a BMW but are actually a Hyundai under the skin?

Since the same formulas and survey methods are used for the creation of the confidence intervals as what would have been used in a hypothesis testing, I fail to see how one is more scientific than the other.

Ron.

Reply to
Ron Loewy

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