The Drive-a-Toyota Act

Page 7 of 15  
"Elmo P. Shagnasty" om...


Yep, I agree with all this. It sounds like you inferred that I was basing this on the instantaneous number, lol. My dive was not watching the instantaneous number. We both have been around the block enough now to understand what you are saying. Instantaneous number is just that, for that moment only, and is used for foot positioning purposes. My dive was in the cumulative number for that tankful, about half a tank at that point. Tomes
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"Bill Putney" ...

Hi Bill, The thing with the Prius is that it generates more energy than it uses electrically, overall. There is a screen that shows the state of the battery charge at all times. In my Prius, it is near the top most of the time (at maybe ~60-70% of charge [the top being 80% and the bottom being 20%]), and I have seen it near the low point only in rare and special cases (such as using the AC in a traffic jam where regeneration is not happening), It even has a mode where it will just spin the engine (without any gas used) to get rid of excess electricity as waste heat. I have wanted some manner of adjustment to make it use electricity moreso because of this. Tomes
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It's not even what I call a transmission, although obviously it performs the task of one.
The Toyota Power Split Device is so ingenious partially because of its utter simplicity. It has nothing at all in common with a modern automatic transmission of any kind.
In fact, changing out from a traditional auto transmission to the PSD is enough reason to put the batteries in the middle. From a maintenance standpoint, they've taken out a hugely complex and frail component of the modern drivetrain and replaced it with something much simpler, requiring no maintenance, and incredibly less likely to break.
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Elmo P. Shagnasty wrote:

CVTs are transmissions.
The PSD is different enough that I would say that it is far more than a CVT.
A far analogy between a PSD and CVT is PSD:CVT::My laptop:DVD player. My laptop has a DVD (and I do watch movies on it), but my laptop does far more.
The analogy is also good, because the laptop eliminates redundant devices, like separate screens for the laptop and DVD and seperate power supplies.

That's true. But neither do CVTs and automatic or manual transmission, except power goes into and power comes out at a different ratio (or the same ratio).

You can also switch to a CVT, which is a really simple device, more simple than a automatic transmission.
Thanks. Your message prompted me to learn more about how the synergy drive works.
Jeff
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wrote:

I put the traditional CVT on par with the traditional fluid drive automatic transmission with respect to complexity and number of failure points, as well as its proclivity to fail.
The Toyota PSD is way, way, way, WAY different.
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"Elmo P. Shagnasty" ...

Yep, agree with all of this. These new transmissions are indeed transmissions in that they transmit power from the power source(s) to the wheels. We are just now getting used to the all new stuff that we never had to consider in production cars before. Sure is fun. Tomes
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On Fri, 6 Jul 2007 15:17:56 UTC, "Elmo P. Shagnasty"

it and it is bulletproof! That was perhaps the best transmission produced.

--
"What do you mean there's no movie?"

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One single datum point does not prove anything.
Modern fluid drive automatic transmissions, especially from the likes of Chrysler, are junk waiting to burst into pieces at any moment.
Even Honda can't get them right.
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Is your last name O'Shaughnessy, by chance? At VA Tech, there is a dormitory named O'Shaughnessy - everyone has always called it O'Shagnasty. Oh those crazy college kids!
Bill Putney (To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my address with the letter 'x')
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On Fri, 6 Jul 2007 22:02:54 UTC, "Elmo P. Shagnasty"

Do you know what "Fluid Drive" is? It was used from 1939-1954. Using the clutch to go from one range to the next, you have a foolproof transmission. Mine does not leak, shifts perfectly, and is a tribute to simplicity for 67 years. Not to burst your bubble on Chrysler transmissions, but my 1970 Dart with TorqueFlite never developed one "datum" of trouble.
--
"What do you mean there's no movie?"

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Not to burst your bubble on Chrysler transmissions, but my father's 77 LeBaron's transmission dropped out of the car, on the freeway, at speed, when the car was a couple years old. Chrysler denied any problems and refused to fix it.
They were practicing for denying any responsibility for the K-car electrical systems, particularly in the coupes (Shelby, anyone?).
Chrysler can kiss my ass.
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You keep mentioning Honda's failures as if that is somehow meaningful. The rest of the industry has been buidling reliable automatic tansmissions for decades. Perhaps you have not been around long enough to understand that. Or perhaps you're simply enamored by Toyota's products.
--

-Mike-
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UGH! I and many others could tell you otherwise, but you wouldn't learn.
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wrote:

Quite correct - I and the rest of the world would not "learn" what you would like to tell. We prefer to acknowledge what the evidence of real world fact dictates.
--

-Mike-
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Not from a performance and efficiency standpoint.
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wrote:

fluid change. It is not bad off the mark, but with the technology of the day, it was pretty good. I get about 21 mpg with it and the 108hp six. Remember, back in 1940, cars were more sedate in their acceleration.
--
"What do you mean there's no movie?"

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"Elmo ...

assist to the gas engine, and has much less of an effect in the more steady state of a flat 50 MPH cruise. Actually, if flat, one can use the electric a bit with a bit of foot tricks, and not lose speed. Tomes
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It's nonsense because with minor mods the car can be driven 15+ miles on a full charge of battery, without firing the engine up.
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Elmo P. Shagnasty wrote:

Bingo Bingo Bingo
Bill Putney (To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my address with the letter 'x')
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Jeff wrote:

<http://consumerguideauto.howstuffworks.com/hybrid-batteries-none-the-worse-for-wear-cga.htm

So when someone comes along who knows the technology and is skeptical when that is bounced against an auto maker's "word" that contradicts what is known about the technology, then that person is labeled a "know-it-all". I guess that's one way to win an argument. Not honest, but it is one way.
I didn't say the deep charge is a given - I threw that in as extra information for a battrery abuse situation. Certainly - go by the 800 to 100 cycles. See how far down the road that gets you.
"Life of the car" defined as, what - 100k miles? 150k miles. No one trusts auto manufcturers when they make promises like that - except when they want to to support a politically-based claim.
IF they want to warranty it like that, then they should. If they really mean it, then why don't they warranty it like that? Or do they know the real statisitics that say they'd lose money like crazy if they did. If they really believed that, they at least should give lifetime battery warranty until their statement can be proven after a number of years and the public's confidence can, from real-wold proof, substitute for a car maker's say-so. I *never* make a decision based on "the check's in the mail" type commitments from automakers. Been burned too many times to do that.
Party on, Garth!
Bill Putney (To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my address with the letter 'x')
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