The Drive-a-Toyota Act

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Elmo P. Shagnasty wrote:


Oops - yes - thanks. Got in a hurry just before going to work.
Bill Putney (To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my address with the letter 'x')
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Oh.
Well, then, I'm an authoritative source on Toyota's HSD, and I know for a fact--based on authoritative sources--that you're full of shit.
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Elmo P. Shagnasty wrote:

Care to give a specific example?
Bill Putney (To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my address with the letter 'x')
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wrote:

Liberals ain't great at anything worth a hoot....

--
Scott in Florida

There ought to be one day-- just one--
  Click to see the full signature.
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This has nothing directly to do with this discussion, but Al Gore's son was arrested today for illegal possession of about 5 different drugs. But the interesting thing is that, prior to the finding of drugs, he was initially stopped for doing over 100 mph in a Prius. There has to be a Far Side™ cartoon in that story somewhere.
Bill Putney (To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my address with the letter 'x')
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Bill Putney wrote:

Oh - and perhaps Gore's son has enough carbon credits to get out of the legal mess, being that he was driving a Prius, or maybe he can buy some credits from his father.
Bill Putney (To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my address with the letter 'x')
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Or a Volkswagen ad (remember "They Said It Couldn't Be Done"?)
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Let's say someone buys the car used after 5 years and the battery immediately fails. Is the warranty going to cover the new owner?
The last time I bought a battery for my 1979 Celica, it was a generic Advance Auto cheapie battery. It was a 24 month battery, but it is still good. It cost about $60. The toyota cost me $400 from Ebay, $140 in diesel fuel to drive 1000 miles round trip to get it (it was in 2000), and $50 for an "in-town" trailer rental..
Once I got the car, I found that the motor needed freshening. I put ~ $800 into the motor and parts for it. I have had to spend $450 on six tires so far. Replaced the brake master cylinder ($40 ebay), the clutch master ($25 ebay), the transmission (brother ran it out of fluid) with one from another parts car (labor only). Replaced the pitman arm ($30 ebay) and the idler arm ($25 ebay).
Total that and it's $2020. I have no idea what i've spent on gas over the last 45,000 miles I've put on it in the last 5 years (didn't drive it for two when i first had it), but around town it gets around 18 - 20 mpg and on the road it gets 28 - 30 mpg at 75 - 80 mph all day long.
I can't understand why someone would *want* a new car.. Let's just say all those miles were in town, getting 20 mpg, with gas at $3,00 per gallon. (although i know that more than half of the miles were highway and significantly LESS than $3,00 a gallon) 45,000 / 20 = 2250 gallons. 2250 * 3 = $6750
$6750 + $2020 = $8770
45,000 miles / $8770 = ~ 5.13 cents per mile.
Now *THAT* is what I call an economy car. I challenge *anyone* with a new car to come up with an operating cost that low.
Stick that in your tailpipe and smoke it.
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Well before anyone says anything about my poor math skills I want to correct myself.. I had the divisor and dividend reversed.. argh.. I feel like a moron! LOL Ok it should have been..
$8770 / 45000 = approx 19.5 cents per mile.
actually not nearly as great as i was thinking, but still much better than buying a new car... LOL
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It's NOT reasonable to sell/trade any car *just* to get better mileage with a new car. Even factoring in the green effect, the resources that went into building the new car offset any/all overall $$$/pollution savings possible. But if you're going to sell/trade anyway, then take those considerations into effect.
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For car, gas, and parts. Pretty good. I agree, there are MANY ways to cut your transportation costs--and it starts with not participating in the great marketing game that is the car sales game, where they make you think you NEED all the new goodies.
I came into a 94 Lexus ES, free, with a newly rebuilt transmission. 124K on the clock. I register and insure it, put gas in it, and pay for repairs and maintenance. I've had a few repairs over the last 50K miles, but nothing outlandish. And every time I drive it, I get a big grin on my face--knowing that it's paid for and is relatively inexpensive to drive, AND is very comfortable with cold air and a smooth ride.
A brand new car with all the goodies is one way to put a grin on your face, but so is a paid-for car that doesn't let you down. The world is full of ways to make you smile.
OK, so let's do your calculation on a new car. I also have a company car, for which the annualized lease value is $5850, or $487.50/month. It gets about 44mpg overall, and gas is $3.00. Over the last 4.5 months I've put 8000 miles on it. Let's do the math.
4.5 months at $487.50/month is $2193.75. At 44mpg overall, those 8000 miles have caused 182 gallons of gas to be burned, or $546 to be spent at that same $3.00/gallon figure you used. Obviously, the car has had no repairs. Oh, but it's had an oil change, call it $30.
$2193.75 plus $546 plus $30 is $2769.75. That divided by 8000 is 34.62 cents/mile to operate the car so far. Yours costs 15 cents/mile less to operate.
At 60mph, both of us traveling side by side, your meter clicks 15 cents/minute to the good, or $9/hour (freeway) that you don't spend compared to buying new.
The one tradeoff between my new car and your 79 Celica is that your car is much more likely to die a sudden horrible death at any time, and/or strand you at the wrong time. It is also significantly less safe in a wreck, but you don't plan on wrecking it. Nonetheless, there are plenty of uninsured, unlicensed, very bad drivers out there...
For the record: I jumped on the company car thing because it's an incredible savings to me to do that, even compared to my own Lexus.
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Elmo P. Shagnasty wrote:

But we can't discuss all of them here.
Bill Putney (To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my address with the letter 'x')
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For US Toyotas, the hybrid battery is covered under the hybrid vehicle system warranty for 8 years/100,000 miles, or if in a CA-emissions state (and a AT-PZEV version) by the longer CA emissions warranty for 10 years/150,000 miles. These warranties stay with the vehicle (like the basic new car warranty and powertrain warranty) and transfer to the new owner, and are NOT pro-rated.
Now, the 12v lead-acid traditional accessory battery, however... That's usually considered a maintenance item in any car (Toyotas included), so you may need to replace that after 5 years. Because of the special size/posts of the AGM 12v in my 2001 Prius, to get a new 12v from the Toyota dealer last year, along with the setting kit and labor costs, it sadly was in the $300 range. I was too lazy to go for a cheaper route: http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/toyota-prius/links/Replacement_12V_Clas_001072738257 /
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For me, that is a four year warranty. Not much of an incentive for me. For my wife, it would run the full term.
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snipped-for-privacy@kluge.net wrote:

So - is that the way everything is on the Prius - things they could just as easily have made standard and relatively inexpensive to replace they made odd to force the owner to buy a part that's 5 times what it should cost or have to do some ridiculous work-around to use standard parts that do the job just as well? Not a good philosophy, but if one is determined to "save the earth", I guess it's the kind of thing you have to allow yourself to get suckered into.
Bill Putney (To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my address with the letter 'x')
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The BMW Mini has a very expensive battery as well. Not a clue why, other than the initials are for Bring Money With.
--
Clarence A Dold - Hidden Valley Lake, CA, USA GPS: 38.8,-122.5

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Picking at non-existent nits, making guesses? Ford says: "the warranty is fully transferable to future owners at no cost."

I think the same way about the hybrid battery. I probably wouldn't buy a dealer-supplied battery pack. I wouldn't buy cheap... Kragen pro-rated batteries seem like more of a subscription to keep you tied to Kragen than a good deal, but I see no need to buy a battery from a dealer.

Well, there you go. 1979? No thanks. I didn't like them in 1979.
Someone pointed out to me that their 92 Escort gets 40+mpg "all day long". (That phrase pops up a lot in unsubstantiated conversations.) Someone else at the table noted that their 92 Escort had seen 40 once or twice, but was typically 35-37 on the highway, and less than that around here. The conversation drifted off before I could ask if the Escort had an automatic or a five speed, A/C, maybe power steering. Does it have enough power to get out of its own way going up hill?
--
Clarence A Dold - Hidden Valley Lake, CA, USA GPS: 38.8,-122.5

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On Sun, 29 Jul 2007 22:01:58 +0000 (UTC), snipped-for-privacy@12.usenet.us.com wrote:

I had a '91 4 door Mazda Protege sedan, the 16 valve version of the Escort, with a 5 speed that DID get 39 MPG "all day long". That car is a frequent topic of discussion between my wife and I when ads brag about 30 MPG.
FWIW, it actually was a lot of fun to drive all 130,000 miles we put on it, and most definitely did get out of it's own way throughout New England.
My Protege was a light and basic car, with only one airbag, non-powered locks, and windows, no ABS or traction control, a basic radio, etc... It did have A/C and power rack and pinion steering. I thought it drove great in sun, snow and rain, and was a great value @ $9100, new.
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And that's the whole point.
I had a 92 Civic Si that could get 41mpg on the highway. Lightweight. But all the safety features are heavy and cost fuel to drag around. The world is a WAY different place than it was 25 years ago.
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On Sun, 29 Jul 2007 19:29:51 -0400, "Elmo P. Shagnasty"


I didn't think it NEEDED traction control or ABS. In fact, I've never owned a vehicle with traction control, but I hated the one my employer provided to me. My '99 Jeep doesn't have ABS, and I don't see the big deal in my '01 Outback or my '095 Tacoma.
But then again, I can drive, and I know what it means to adjust one's speed to conditions. I slow down when it gets slippery! <G>
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