The End of Detroit

Page 2 of 3  
n5hsr wrote:


My Chevy Nova which I bought new in July '87 and which was built at that same plant in Fremont (not Fresno) is also still doing fine - and I still see quite a few others of the same vintage.
Not sure why you think the Corolla and Geo Prizm have any difference in quality. They were built by the same workers on the same assembly line using the same parts except for slightly different sheet metal. All the reliability surveys I've seen, such as those in CU and other magazines, showed the Prizm/Nova and the Corolla to have esentially equal records - which is just what I'd expect since they're essentially the same car.
Just bought our daughter a car that came off that same assembly line - an '06 Pontiac Vibe (twin of the Toyota Matrix). After almost 9000 miles the assembly quality appears to be excellent - despite having been assembled bright and early on a Monday morning.
We recently took a tour of that NUMMI assembly plant in Fremont. One thing that was emphasized was the difference in work attitude between when this was a strictly GM facility (1962 - 1982) and under NUMMI (1984 - present). Absenteeism on a Monday morning (i.e. when our new Vibe was mde) was almost 50% under GM and it showed in the quality of the cars. Now absenteeism is under 5% and that change is matched by similar changes in worker attitudes. And the difference is not a union vs. non-union one. The current workers are members of UAW Local 2244.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Now Renault is going to pick up the pieces at GM and take over the bankrupt operations
It wil be interesting to watch how they will divide it up and how they handle the union contracts
The most difficult part is to handle the enormous debt and possibly best to sell off everything and then change the name to Renault-GM of the new owner and leave the problems behind
It will be more organised bankruptcy
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

According to this Business Week Online article, http://www.businessweek.com/autos/content/jun2006/bw20060630_498950.htm this is not a done deal. So far, it is a matchmakeing attempt on the part of Kirk Kerkorian's Tracinda Corp.
--

Ray O
(correct punctuation to reply)
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
GM:s last hope before the bellyup
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Just Facts wrote:

It's hard to tell the difference between a foreign and an American car anymore. The Fusion is built in Mexico and Ford owns 40% of Mazda. A lot of Ford trannys are built in France and 50% of a Ford hybrid is built in Japan. The Chevy Equinox has an engine made in China and a lot of "foreign" cars are built in USA, ALTHOUGH a part could be built in another country and finished (maybe just installing a decal or slapping on some paint) in the US and it can now be claimed to be built in the USA. The American "Big 3" cannot be called that because Chrysler is German owned. So what is American made and what is foreign made? I don't know. I do know that no matter what financial difficulties the "Big 2" have, the CEOs of these companies still pull in mega bucks and they don't care how many jobs they outsource.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
My Pontiac isnt far from ten years old and I see no reason to replace it in the next ten years. (real detroit engine) If everyone wants to continue thinking Detroit makes inferior cars go right ahead. In ten years I'll buy another so called "inferior" Detroit car with its low resale value and not have near as much money invested in it in the short or long run.
Btw the OP " snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com" is a troll. Should of been obvious from the crosspost. Have fun feeding him...
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
...

My 15 year old Regal has finally worn out. Engine & trans are still good, but other stuff is going, as would be expected. When you keep a car that long, resale value is meaningless. Right now it is worth next to nothing, and it will take about $1500 to bring it up to "excellent" in KBB, meaning it will be worth less than $900. Needs an exhaust system, but it is the original on there.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Look at the first number of the VIN. A '1' is made in the US. '2' made in Canada, '3' made in Mexico. '4' made in the US more than 40% but less than 70% American US components, (engineering, design, assembly. labor and parts etc). '5' Made in the US of less than 40% US components. Forget the parts content label, it is misleading. Camrys made in Japan with 'J' an engine and tranny made in Japan will exhibit a 70% American parts label when not a single part is made in America Camry assembled in the US will have a '4' and the Tundra has a '5.'
mike hunt

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Actually, many "foreign" cars are made in the US.

The Toyota Sienna has 90% American content. The American content of foreign makes is increasing.

What domestic company has a fo\reign controlling interest? Please don't say Diamler-Chrysler. That is a foreign country.
Jeff
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Paradox wrote:

I am a cheapskate but don't shop at Wal-Mart; however I would buy another Ford IF they would bring the model they sell in every country but the US: the Ka . But no, they have no model in the US that gets even close to the MPG my 13 year old Ford Festiva gets. Actually none of the "Big 3" have any gas-stingy compacts right now. And I'm not doing a knee jerk reaction to gas prices; my last 3 cars were all Fords, 2 Festivas and 1 Fiesta. The joke is they were all Ford in "name" only. The Festiva is really a Kia and the Fiesta was an Audi (I think...not positive). I've watched for any of the big 3 to come out with a subcompact since I was planning to retire my Festiva (I need AC and mine doesn't have it); I've surrendered and have concluded it'll have to be a Toyota or Scion instead.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Actually, the Festiva, Fiesta, Yaris, xA, and xB are all sub-compacts. Chevrolet sells the Aveo sub-compact, which I believe is made in Korea, although the Aveo does not get the same fuel economy as the Yaris, xA, and xB.
--

Ray O
(correct punctuation to reply)
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Ray O wrote:

I looked at the Aveo; and you are correct. It doesn't get the fuel economy of those others that I'm now considering. Plus it's not very pretty. And pretty is another factor :)
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

"Pretty" is in the eye of the beholder, or driver, in the case of cars ;-)
--

Ray O
(correct punctuation to reply)
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
"Ray O" <rokigawaATtristarassociatesDOTcom> wrote in message

The Fiesta was uniquely a Ford. Google Street Ka or Sport Ka for a couple of neat tiny Fords. The Ford dealer that I bought my Focus from was grumbling because the Focus Diesel isn't available in NA. Nor is the Focus ST with a Volvo 5 cyl engine turbo'ed I think!
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Actually, people are paying a lot more for foreign-brand cars than they will for similar U.S. brands. It's a far worse situation than you realize.
A lot of people (you?) have this attitude that German and Japanese wages are "Cheap Foreign Labor". That's just not true. You think GM is chokin' now, wait till they have to compete with the Chinese. That'll get your attention. Ask me now I know.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

I heard a reporter state on the weekend that Ford's #2 selling vehicle is the Ford Taurus. Which you can't even buy! It's a fleet sale vehicle only.
Steve
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
The corporate fleets love the Taurus. $18,900 for a great vehicle with the great long term dependability they need from the vehicles they keep in service for five years of 300K, WOF. $10,000 less than a similar V6 Camry or Accord. Yes you can buy one, but you can't get the $600 fleet discount. Ask to see the Fleet Sales Manager at you local dealership. $19,500 is a great price for a nicely equipped V6 full size car. LOL
mike hunt

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Esp. with GM, it's get the cars out fast as cheaply as possible. While this does allow them to cut their prices to remain competitive, I have NOT seen many GM cars I would be interested in owning. They just have the appearance and "feel" of being cheap. I like Fords better than GM products, with the exception of Cadillac. Cadillac has been run like 'a separate' company for years and the differences are very apparent.

Nissan HAD to change. During the 90's they almost had to stop selling cars in the US! The perception of low quality due to light weight bodies hurt them badly. Crawl around an Early-90's Nissan and take a good lok at how it was built. Very badly, IMHO. Pieces that should have been bolted (like Taoyota would do) were held together with Sheet Metal Screws! Not condusive to Good Car Building! Bodies would often develope rattles within 40-60,000 miles.

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Problem with all US car manufacturers is they see the auto business as a personal "cash cow"
The main thought in management seems to be; "How can I maximise my pay/benefits package" and The same holds true for Labor too.
No one seems to have the vision for "the long haul". They haven't learned a thing from their Asian competitors. Quality, durability, and improving those things every year.
<rj>
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Well, I was following that right up until you said the Ford Focus, Five Hundred, and Freestyle would "get people's attention." How in the world did you pick those snoozers? They might sell, but won't attract any attention.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Related Threads

    Motorsforum.com is a website by car enthusiasts for car enthusiasts. It is not affiliated with any of the car or spare part manufacturers or car dealers discussed here. All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.