What's with this bullshit? Are the dealers running out of ways to
scam us as the manufacturers design longer service intervals into the
Should I bother with this crap in my driver's manual, or just ignore
I would put this into the category of "If it ain't broke . . .". All
we need to do is give the service monkeys with the power wrenches more
things to fuck up!
On Sat, 7 Feb 2009 10:17:05 -0800 (PST), firstname.lastname@example.org wrote:
It's not going to happen. Right in the driver's handbook they say "If
you do your own servicing or have another mechanic do it, make sure
you retain your receipts in case you have a warranty claim to make in
future". I just bought 2 gallons of Castrol synthetic and 2 oil
filters at Cdn Tire for $65 total - that'll cover the first 2 oil
changes and I'm leaving the tires alone. It's the only way you can
recognize suspension problems early anyway. If you start rotating
everything, you don't know what's going on. You can always buy 2 new
tires when you need them, and 2 more later on anyway. What's magical
about buying 4 at a time? I'm very happy with my new van, and I'm not
going to let the dealer screw that up.
Good advice! The Japs do that kind of stuff. A number of years ago one
of my youngsters was driving a Honda that blow an oil seal, while on an
Interstate going back to college. When the oil light came on she drove a
few miles to the next exit to seek help.
Honda rejected the warranty claim for a new engine we installed, saying she
must have used an oil that was too high in viscosity, causing the seal to
Luckily one of my fleet services shops was the one submitting the claim. We
records to prove the oil was changed by Hondas warranty standards. After
they paid me the claim I sold the car and no longer bought any more Hondas.
By the way our dealer cost for that new 4 cylinder Honda engine was $4,200,
back at a time when a new domestic V8 could be had for around only $3,000
That's an interesting point, because alignment is usually covered 1-
year/12K miles. So, right, if you start to rotate and equalize the
wear you can't tell if the alignment or other suspension parts are off
to get free warranty service.
Why would you have the dealer do a non-warranty service anyway? Only people
with too much money do that. Sensible people follow the manufacturer's
guidelines and have a reliable impendent shop do the work. Most people
also get too many oil changes too.
If I were the dealer, I'd tell the dumb customers that I do the
rotation so I can do a proper examination of the brakes and suspension
with the wheels & tires off, hahaha!
GM knows that, so they have made the oil change interval longer (I
think), and dependent on driving conditions as "monitored" by the
vehicle. It will tell you when to change the oil. I say monitored in
quotes because there is no oil condition sensor, they only track
engine revolutions (not distance travelled) and temperature. Cold
weather driving shortens oil life. I'm just over 6000 mi., but the
monitor tells me I have 10% left on my oil.
GM reckons they're saving the world millions of barrels of oil each
year with this. Either that or they want to see more engines fail at
just over 100,000 miles, hahaha!
What a stupid statement. First off, I did not say there were a lot of
GM engines fail at just over 100,000 miles, I just suggested, in a
joking way, that they would want to see "more" fail. Going from 1
failure to 2 would "more" would it not?
Secondly, how is anyone to know what GM is "known for"? Just because
some anonymous voice on the internet named mmarlowe says so? When you
make supposedly knowledgeable statements like that you should always
quote a reference, otherwise people think you are just making it up or
merely stating your own opinion, which may have very little
resemblance to the truth.
Ignorance does seem to be quite blissful - for you!
On Sun, 08 Feb 2009 07:03:33 -0500, Happy Trails cast forth these pearls of
No - some of us actually rely on such things as experience and real world
performance. Some of us are even aware enough to properly spell the name
of something/someone - especially when it is printed right in front of
them. Hint - no "e" in mmarlow.
That would more likely apply to your comment to which I responded. I don't
need to quote a reference - history and real world performance backs up my
statement. Your original statement on the other hand...
Again I must point out to you, mmarlowREMOVE, that just because you
type it here, and insist that your opinions constitute the sum total
of all "experience and real world performance" - it still does not
necessarily make it true, factual, or even remotely credible!
And don't bother to try to ally yourself to other posters here by
saying "some of us . . ." . I'm sure others here probably more
logical than yourself would not wish to be so grouped.
On Sun, 08 Feb 2009 09:38:06 -0500, Happy Trails cast forth these pearls of
No opinion fool - pure fact. Unlike your foolish ramblings. You don't
seen to understand the difference between opinion, and verifiable fact. No
sweat - you've proven yourself to be a foolish simpleton here, so off with
Unfortunately for you, many here do indeed operate in the realm of reality,
experience and proven fact. You need not try to speak for other's wishes,
since you have no clue what they are.
You were called on a BS statement, and you try to turn the tables to make
yourself look better. Sorry - your statement was pure BS, and you've done
nothing since to make yourself any more credible.
Run along now and ask some more stupid questions that are already addressed
in your owner's manual.
So show us some verification.
Show some proof of the proven facts.
If you could you would. But you can't, so you try the personal
attacks yet again.
It's still just your opinion till you do - nothing more or less.
Not to give too much credibility to the goodwill of dealerships, but
I damaged a set of good tires by not rotating as often as the tire
company recommended...(And they gave free rotations)..
I believe it was 10,000 miles. I went a lot longer and the tires
got noisy, started cupping.
I started the rotation cycle, and have had no more problems.
(Those tires now have 70,000 on them)
This is the kind of advice/anecdote I was looking for. I wonder if
some fairly minor suspension anomalies can cause this, and that
rotating the tires avoids it. Are there any tire guys here who can
comment on this?
If it's a good idea, I'll rotate them myself, but if it's just
make-work for the dealers, I'd just as soon not bother.
I had the front end aligned and checked. That was not an issue,
You can easily rotate them yourself, and that is what I do now.
Especially after some shitteauxs used impact wrenches on my
lugs and warped my rotors.
Many FWD cars have cupping on the rear tires. I'm not one to rotate
because it is just to much of a PITA sometimes. My Regal OEM tires had
65,000 miles on the rear set and plenty of treat for another 15k or so, but
I got tired of the noise from the cupped tires.
My Sonata just clicked 50,000 miles today. Fronts have been replaced at
47,000 in time for the snow and the rear are still good and not cupped. I'll
probably get another 20 to 30,000 out of them. Different cars, different
driving habits, different suspension makes each situation unique so keep an
eye on them.
If you don't like the tires on your car, rotating them assure even wear so
you can replace them all at the same time. Otherwise, putting on two at a
time is OK. I've done that for years.
Don't rotate your tires. We'd much rather you pay us early for
alignments and ball joint repairs. Those nickel and dime maintenance things
cut into our expensive repairs. Heck, if you have an accident because the
insides of your tires are worn out, we can even sell you a new car.
On Sat, 7 Feb 2009 14:11:05 -0900, "Mark and Ellen Smith"
How can anyone take you seriously when you post under the name of
"Mark and Ellen Smith".
"You" wouldn't be getting anything from anyone anyway - I do
alignments and ball joints myself also.
If you had a brain, you'd explain "WHY" the tires should be rotated so
many times - that is if you actually knew!
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