Toyota blames costs, not UAW, for NUMMI pullout

Borrow another car and drive behind that Blazer. Come back and share your observations.

In reality, it's the mindless idiots that are always screaming "Buy American" that were responsible for so much vehicle manufacturing moving overseas, and it was the people that insisted on quality products that were responsible for so much foreign nameplate manufacturing moving back to the U.S..

It the "Buy American" crowd had joined their more intelligent fellow citizens in saying "we're not buying your crap any more" then Ford, GM, and Chrysler would have been forced to change long before getting into their current state. Instead, there were enough people that put nationalism ahead of common sense and allowed the big 3 to limp along, jumping from one fad to the next, selling mediocre quality minivans, SUVs, etc. and selling mass quantities of cars to rental car fleets, while Toyota and Honda and others were content to gain market share of the more discerning buyers.

I love the excuse made by the faithful in discussions about why relatively new Chrysler minivans begin to stink like 30 year old Blazers: "It's not Chrysler's fault. Mitsubishi (or whoever) made the engine."

Duh. Was Chrysler forced to use those engines, not just for one model year, but for many years?

If I had an independent repair shop back when Chrysler minivans were so popular, I would have specialized in them. There's few vehicles that are both extremely popular and that require inordinate amounts of repairs just out of warranty. We had such a shop near one of my old jobs and did very well. I notice that it's now gone though. Not much money in repairing Siennnas and Odysseys.

My mechanic's comment about Chrysler minivans: "Engine tolerances measured in 1/4" increments." :-)

Maybe the very latest are better, but as recently as 4-5 years ago, the engines developed a nasty stank very quickly. Burned oil as if they'd been on the road forever. You never noticed.

"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message news:cNOnm.136941$ snipped-for-privacy@newsfe16.iad...

My SO had a '97 Grand Voyager. It was a stripper with the 3.0L Mitibishi engine. She had two problems, both not entirely the van's fault. At around 100,000 miles she used it to tow a 24 foot sailboat around 600 miles, mostly down and up I-95 at 65+ mph. This resulted in a burnt valve - easily repaired. The van was not rated to tow anything this large. The windage on a 24 foot sailboat is huge. At around

180,000 miles the transmission went belly up. This was after another trip up I-95 - this time without the sailboat. However, the transmission had been serviced by Jiffy Lube the day before. When we checked, there was no fluid on the stick. We both suspect, but cannot prove, that Jiffy Lube screwed up. At this point the van was 9 years old and had 180,000 miles. A junk yard bought it for $500. Her experience with this van was better than with her prior vehicle - a Camry Wagon. She kept the Camry for as many miles, and it was mobile at the end. However, it leaked so many fluid from so many places she would not park it in the garage. And all the oil leaks were slowly killing off the yard. I was afaraid it was going to become an EPA superfund site. Besides all the leaks, the paint was horrid, the interior was literally falling apart, it rode like crap, and drove worse. The Plymouth van was never as bad as the Camry at any point right up until the final failure. However, to my surprise, when the van failed, she went straight back to Toyota. Any fair comparison of her prior two vehicles would have led to the conclusion that the Plymouth van was by far the better vehicle, especially considering cost, but she didn't even consider another domestic vehicle. She now has a RAV4, which is a decent vehcile except for the ergonomics which are horrid - I am amazed you can make such a large vehicle so uncomfortable and screw up the control layouts so much.

Ed

It is abusive when UAW workers push their benefits to the limit, when workers clock in, slip out the back fence, spend the day at the bar, return to clock out, and go home, without doing any work, and the union endorses this.

Chrysler minivans are some of the best vehicles on the road.

I've actually owned some. You're talking the 3.0 Mitsubishi engine. It was horrible. I lost a lot of respect for Mitsubishi because of this engine.

You're talking to some one who knows cars. I'd stop if I were you before I looked like a total fool.

Yeah, they made a few mistakes. I had a 3.3 with the broken rocker tower problem. You know what? It still ran. It still got 28 MPG overall. I had no problems at 65 on the highway.

But the van was solidly built, and how many do you see on the road every day? Granted they made tons, but tons are still on the road. Once the transmission is replaced, if you do proper maintenance you'll get Toyota type mileage out of them.

I assume you can provide proof of what you claim. Or are you just talking out your ass, again?

Actually, this sort of thing was in the news several years ago. Not "going home", but Ford paid workers to sit around doing nothing on company property, in case someone called in sick.

How the hell is that the same thing? If Ford wants to pay people to sit around and do nothing, that is there business. Michael is claiming UAW workers are clocking in, spending the day at the bars (outside the factory), then clocking out...and he's wrong.

Mike Dobony has a black paint brush that he likes to paint people with. He likes to portray evil in things he speaks about. You have to take that into consideration when reading his posts.

Thanks Mike, I'll keep that in mind.

I have no idea where you get your information but the fact is the highest sales figures ever, for vehicles in the US, was nearly 19,000,000 in 2007.

In 2007 only ONE and a half million were sold to RENTAL CAR Fleets and EVERY manufacturer domestic and FOREIGN sells to RENTAL CAR Fleets.

Currently RENTAL CAR Fleets are buying just over 800,000 cars and Hyundai sells more cars to RENTAL CAR Fleets than any other manufacture and 51% are not American cars.

GM since the fifties has sold, and is still selling more vehicles than any other manufacturer in the US. Do you think all those millions of buyer are the "Buy American" crowd that have joined their more intelligent fellow citizens in saying "we're not buying your crap any more?"

Sounds to me like there is a MANAGEMENT problem in that plant, if that is what you believe. LOL

My techs were members of the Machinists Union. If any of my guys did what you suggested, I would fire them and there it not a thing the Machinists Union, or ANY Union, could do to stop me, dummy

And think top posting Mike, GM days are numbered with regards to "#1". Given their last months fall off in sales, even with BO's cash for clunkers, looks like GM is still bleading money like crazy. Read GM's last quarters financial results.

Still going down the hole and sucking ever more moneys from the taxpayers.

Similar:

WAYNE -- Ken Pool is making good money. On weekdays, he shows up at 7 a.m. at Ford Motor Co.'s Michigan Truck Plant in Wayne, signs in, and then starts working -- on a crossword puzzle. Pool hates the monotony, but the pay is good: more than $31 an hour, plus benefits.

"We just go in and play crossword puzzles, watch videos that someone brings in or read the newspaper," he says. "Otherwise, I've just sat."

Pool is one of more than 12,000 American autoworkers who, instead of installing windshields or bending sheet metal, spend their days counting the hours in a jobs bank set up by Detroit automakers and Delphi Corp. as part of an extraordinary job security agreement with the United Auto Workers union.