Toyota, GM, and Ford differences

The tendency for many Hondas to overheat front rotors, that eat up linings and rotors. Nest time you walk down a busy city street take note of all the Hondas that you see parked that have wheels, particularly aluminum wheels, that are brown or blacked with brake and rotor dust. ;)

mike hunt

Are you happy with it? Do you feel you got a good enough deal, or otherwise got enough value out of it, to justify having it sidelined to fix these problems?

If the answer's "yes," then GM should make another sale to you, presuming they build a vehicle that fits your identified needs. If the answer's "no," GM's got a problem to address.

I assume adults know how to distinguish fact (i.e., defect rates, hours needed to produce each vehicle) from opinion (i.e., GM designs and executives are bad), and the popularity of any brand of vehicles doesn't change opnions about it to facts or vice-versa.

Yes I do, and both combined continue to wander in the business wilderness. What really happened is that a real estate speculator bought K-mart out of bankrupcy and then bought Sears. Then he renamed the combined company Sears.

20 years ago Sears was #1 and K-mart was #2, much like GM and Ford. Now Sears-Kmart is one company and together is still a basket case.

John

Well, a third party bought K-Mart out of bankrupcy and then bought Sears. Then he renamed the whole thing Sears, just to keep it confusing.

John

Hmmm, the average Toyota dealer in the US sells three times as many vehicles as does the average GM dealer, so your observations don't really mean a whole lot.

John

I assume people know how to distinguish between fact (failure rates, costs, labor hours) and opinion (design and leadership are bad), and the popularity of a brand of vehicles doesn't change facts about it to opinions or vice-versa..

The is factually incorrect. Perhaps you meant to say the average dealer, that sells Toyota BRAND vehicles sells more vehicles per dealership? Since there are far fewer Toyota brand dealership, than say the average Chevrolet dealer or Buick dealer which would be factually correct. The ratios is nowhere near three times as many however. In the US an average GM dealership sells far more vehicles than an average Toyota MOTOR Company dealerships sell Toyotas, Lexus and Scion vehicles. FMC and Chrysler Motors dealers sell more vehicles, on average, the Toyota Motors dealers, as well.

One needs to peruse Toyotas press releases and ads carefully. Toyota missives have a tendency to confuse buyers. The only vehicle that Toyota Motor Company sell in the US, in a comparably high volume is the Camry that sells at a rate over 600K, and some what the Corolla. Nearly all of their other models sell in volumes less the 300K. Toyota for example gives the impression they sell more cars than any other manufacture in the US, which in not factually correct. The sell more cars with the same brand name on the hood but not more cars with more than one brand name on the hood. GM and Ford sell more cars. In addition GM, Ford, and Chrysler to a lesser extent, sell trucks alone in numbers two to three times greater than any cars Toyota sells .

mike hunt

Is that the reason you believe Toyota is in fourth place behind GM, Ford and Chrysler in the US? Based on the many Toyotas I have owned I believe Toyota makes great vehicles, but I have found that they are generally over priced, under powered and no better than any other brand. The reason Toyota sells the number of vehicles in the US that it does is because buyer buy the vehicle they believe to be the best for them and their money. Obviously you buy the brand you buy for the same reason. The fact is more buyer choose GM over Ford, Ford over Chrysler, Chrysler over Toyota and Toyota over Honda. Whether you agree with the reasoning of those buyers, or not, that is only your opinion.

mike hunt

So, what was the deal with the front rotors and pads on the Malibu?... and the three trips to the garage to get the gas guage problem fixed?...and the four trips within a five week period to get the temperature guage problem fixed?.. all in less than 35000 km.

Sammy

Surely you don't think your vehicle is the only one to has problems? The point is no manufacture makes a perfect vehicle, they all make some that are not up to par, that is why they all offer a warranty. Every manufacture statically makes between 1% to just over 2% that are problematic. Buying a particular brand hopping you will not get on of the 2% is an effort in futility. The odds are far greater one will get one of the 98% that are great vehicles, not matter whose brand in on the hood.

mike hunt

Idiot. Brake dust on the wheels is NOT a sign of over-heated or inadequate brakes. Many cars use softer pads for better performance and feel - look at any BMW that hasn't had it's wheels recently cleaned.

I'll take the 1% choice, thank you. That will be half the likelihood of difficulties compared to the 2% choice.

In addition, when you get that 1% or 2% failure, what does the manufacturer do about it? I don't have any sludging problem with my Toyota 3.0L V6 engine. However, about a year after I'd gotten the vehicle, I received a letter from Toyota warning me that people had reported problems with this. The letter said not to worry about it, maintain the engine normally, show a good-faith effort to keep it up and Toyota would fix any engine problems that came along.

A marked contrast to my Ford experience with 3 transmission failures. From Ford, I got a phone call that said "too bad."

Not that I believe your figures, anyway.

I assume mental midgets do not know how to or care to distinguish fact (i.e., country of ownership, balance of payments for debtor nation (US) versus non debtor nation (Japan), manufacturer country of origin, real estate property tax abatement for non domestic manufacturers, rice steel versus real steel, rice glass versus real glass, when will the Japanese call in our debt) from opinion (i.e., GM, Ford and Chrysler designs and executives are bad), and the popularity of any brand of vehicles doesn't change opinions about it to facts or vice-versa.

Like we believe your stories

manufacturer

fixed?...and

Correction; it's now when will China call in their debt. China has been supporting the USA deficit for some time by buying USA treasury bills. Several hundred billion and counting.

I didn't give a reason just then but just an explanation of fact vs. opinion and also stated some facts that indicate how GM is inferior.

You said Toyotas are overpriced but that other people feel they're the best value for the money. Why do you and the other people differ on this criterion? Is it because the other people feel Toyotas are superior enough in other respects to make them better values despite higher price? I actually agree with you that Toyotas cost more than comparable GM and Ford vehicles.

Defect rates and the hours per vehicle are not opinions but facts, and GM, Ford, and Chrysler are inferior to Toyota, Honda, and Nissan in hours and inferior to Toyota and Honda in defect rates. On the other hand, GM cars being ugly or beautiful or the Honda Civic deserving or not deserving a "Car of the Year" award are opinions. So are Ford's, GM's, and Chrysler's beliefs that Toyota and Honda are the best car makers.

GM has about 15% of the world market, and some time in 2006 so will Toyota. Show me where GM or Ford is gaining on Toyota, either worldwide or in North America alone.

Chrysler was saved by a federal loan guarantee and the minivan. Iacocca wanted to build the FWD minivan while at Ford, but the board refused to fund a FWD chassis, something Chrysler already had in development (K-car) by the time Iacocca joined the company. Minivans gave Chrysler a profit of $1500 per vehicle from the beginning, and currently each one nets $5000-7000.

Ford greatly improved in the 1980s mostly because of a very good chairman, Donald Petersen, the decision to copy the Audio 5000 FWD sedan, and by not overly increasing production capacity. Ford was also helped by GM's stumbles.

Actually GM, Ford, and Chrysler ("Chrysler is American!") owners are more likely to insult Toyotas, calling them "rice burners" and thinking Japan is still a Third World country. This is particularly common in areas where a high percentage of Pontiacs are on blocks in the front yard.