Toyota, GM, and Ford differences

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There are laws proscribed for driving on public roadways. Individual preference is the rule here. Is that the best you can do? It's pretty lame.

I disagree. I think it is very comprehensible for most people most of the time, and in the times it isn't, the option is there to quick scroll down to check the context. That's my comment on the subjective point. Objectively you also are factually wrong about the not having yet been said. It HAS been said. That's how it was able to be quoted in the 1st place you doof!
It's as if you have this mental barrier that you just can't get past, that each posting stands alone. And as such, each posting must start off with (at the top) all previous parts of the discussion. Then the reader needs to read a complete history of all postings on the subject before reading a bit of new material. Then, when the reader goes to the next message in the thread (immediately after they read this one) they should do it all over again in the next message, because hey, after all, each message has to stand all alone right? NOT! In usenet, postings are part of a thread. I'll give you a big hint to help your problem. Stop doing primary sorting by date, and start organizing by thread 1st. It's the smart way to do it, regardless what posting styles are being used.

You can adopt the sheep mentality if you like. I think for myself. I wish you could "observe" my middle finger about now.

Funny, I hardly ever have a problem with that. You really need to primarily start organizing your reading by thread, not date.

Opinion. One I disagree with. You don't seem to have too much trouble responding to my posts. Honestly now, are you claiming it is too hard to scroll down to scan the context if needed, but it isn't a big deal to have to do the scrolling to get to the fresh material each and every time? If so that is soooo illogical.

Sure there is. Maybe you should better learn how to use a news reader to advantage.

It's right below new material! If you consider that a hard nut to crack, then I guess I'm starting to realize what I'm dealing with here.

Sigh. Can you say "bahh"? There is plenty of support for top posting too. I prefer to debate my stance on my own. There once was a man named Copernicus who suggested it was wise to understand that the earth and other planets revolved around the sun. Convention said that no, everything rotated around the earth. Oh the great ones that were quoted, even the great Aristotle and others. And yet even so, Calumnious was right; convention was wrong.
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SgtSilicon wrote:
(top posting corrected)

Nope. It not only prevents quality, point-by-point discussion, but if often multiplies the effort of reading and understanding a post, because one must scroll-down into the post to see what is being responded to, and then back up to the top to read the response.

It's obviously less effort than properly formatting and trimming your response as I am doing. This is not really "top vs. bottom" so much as "right vs. wrong". There's no way a top post can match the quality of communication of an interleaved post like this one.

Those who don't properly trim are indeed lazy, as you say. However, they are not "the lazy ones" - they are only a subset of the lazy ones.
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So you claim that top posters are the lazy ones, then claim that those who do not cull their quoted material are lazy but only as a subset of the true lazy ones. That means you are saying that bottom posters never fail to properly cull their quoted material, or it means you are saying that if they do fail we shouldn't label them lazy. Are you daft sir? Is not there mountains of evidence of bottom posting full quoting idiots even here in this very newsgroup?
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SgtSilicon wrote:

I've said or implied nothing of the kind. Suffering from reading comprehension problems?

Non sequitur.

How ironic, coming from a logically-handicapped top-poster.

It happens, sure.
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wrote:

Do you also drive on what ever side of the road you feel like regardless of normal convention?
Top-posting makes your message incomprehensible to many of your readers. In normal conversation, after all, you don't answer to something that has not yet been said. For your edification, widely observed Usenet etiquette dictates that top posting is absolutely INAPPROPRIATE!
When you quote, you're doing it to provide context. Requiring your readers to scroll down and then back, repeatedly (as they attempt to figure out what the heck you're talking about), is a rather difficult way for you to make the context available. Providing the context up-front will get you better results. There's no way to build a threaded discussion with top-posting. Top-posting severely inhibits others from understanding the conversation, because the context of the conversation is out of order, as in broken. Replying at the top confuses your readers, making any point you're trying to get across very unclear without them scrolling down and back repeatedly, searching to re-integrate context. That extra, wholly unnecessary work leads to reader irritation, or worse, to readers just not bothering with your words at all. Since your object is to get your message across, help your readers follow by placing your words in context, not prior to the context. Doing otherwise, forcing your readers to go to extra work unnecessarily, is often irritating, sometimes interpreted as insulting, or in severe cases taken as attempt by you to show your "power". Any way you cut that, delivering your words in an hard to read manner doesn't help your case. Instead, post in-line to preserve context and respect your readers. http://www.river.com/users/share/etiquette /
Top-posting means replying to a message above the original message. This may be a message in an Internet forum, an e-mail message or a Usenet post. Top-posting is considered improper by many definitions of Internet etiquette since it breaks down the flow of the thread: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Top_posting
Top-posting vs bottom-posting Some people like to put reply after the quoted text, some like it the other way around, and still some prefer interspersed style. Debates about which posting style is better have lead to many flame wars in the forums. To keep forum discussion friendly, please follow the general preference, which is bottom-posting http://www.mozilla.org/community/etiquette.html
Why is Bottom-posting better than Top-posting By A. Smit and H.W. de Haan Below you can find our arguments why bottom-posting is better than top-posting. http://www.caliburn.nl/topposting.html
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wrote:

Mikey is not a newbie. Once again, from a user in the group he regularly pollutes (and we can't get him to go away, either)...
Please Don't Feed The Troll.
--<< Bruce >>--
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Regarding top posting, it violates nothing of the sort. Just because some self important jack-ass wrote a document and claimed it to be proper netiquette doesn't make it so. You need the context, you scroll down. If it's not the kind of message that requires context or you already got the context from the just previous message you read, then you don't need to scroll.
Long before usenet there were the BBSs. In that era, the ratio of hard core skilled computer people using such services was much higher than today. Message bases were almost exclusively top posted because it was all but universally recognized as the obvious way to go. Then comes the popularity of the internet. Some lame ass Johnny come friggin lately, who needs his dick held while he re-reads every stinking bit of a thread right before a new bit, decides to write down preferences and label them as if they were handed down from on high like the ten commandments or something. Then desciples like you preach the gospel as if it were holy writ. It isn't. Never was. Never will be.
I'm someone who's been doing this crap since like 1982 on my own 300bps (also baud at that time) modem. I say this not to imply any kind of superiority in knowing what is best here, but to point out that I know how these cheese whiz wankers came along later and thought they would pretend to show all the new netzeins the "enlightened" ways. You've been led by false prophets. Believe it or not believe it it's up to you. It's time people open their eyes.
wrote:

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Amen brother. I'll stop top posting when the other morons on the i-net quit including EVERY iteration of the conversation ad-infinitiuum. Honestly, if someone wants to post a reply at the bottom, I certainly respect their option to do so... However, please at least be curtious enough to cut out the chaff so I don't have page upon page to scroll through to get to somebody's 1-line response. THAT is what makes it hard to understand the context. JP
snipped-for-privacy@ihatespam.net (SgtSilicon) wrote in wrote:

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You and I see it exactly the same way. Also, they probably wouldn't know a good newsreader if it jumped out and bit them in the ass.
On Thu, 12 Jan 2006 10:44:12 GMT, Jon R Patrick

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Jon R Patrick wrote:

So if someone else is a lazy, selfish idiot, that gives you the right to be one as well?
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Sound rationale has been provided. You respond by insults like idiot then here's one for you.... go f*ck yourself.

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SgtSilicon wrote:

No, only illogical nonsense has been provided - the same wrong-headed nonsense I've read a hundred times from lazy, stupid, selfish, top-posting idiots trying to defend their lazy, stupid, selfish ways.
"It's easier for me, fuck everyone else."
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You are genuinely stupid.

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It does give me the right to put my post at the top, where people can read it quickly and move on. You can insult as much as you want, but I've been online for many years, and I've never thought the 'bottom post' was a better way of doing it. J
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Jon R Patrick wrote:

Except that's not how it works. People have to read down below your response to see what the hell you're talking about.

Then you are an idiot.
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Dizzy, you are truly stupid.

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I don't know anything about you, beyond this thread, but it is absolutely amazing to me that you come across like a 15-year old who read somewhere that botttom-posting is the only acceptable way to do it, and you're going to carry your banner all over the usenet. Honestly, you don't like what I say because I re: on top.... killfile me. It's a stupid argument, where you feel your way is the only.
J

years,

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Jon R Patrick wrote:

You don't know anything about who, top poster? Oh, I see, you want us all to read down into the post to see who are are talking about, and then go back to the top to try and make sense of your post.

How ironic, coming from the person too lazy and selfish to properly format his post to maximize the quality of discussion. How VERY ironic, from the person who just wants to rant-away at the top, while ignoring all the points of the previous poster.

Wrong again, top-poster. It was immediately obvious to me that "quote and reply" is the ONLY way to have a quality discussion, and that only lazy, selfish idiots think that top-posting is superior.
"Oh dear, I don't want to scroll down." Umm... That's why proper trimming is performed. Just because some "bottom posters" are too lazy to trim does not mean that we should all abandon any hope of quality, point-by-point discussions and start ranting-away at the top.

The fact that you top-post is strong evidence that you have nothing of value lend to the discussion, no doubt.

It is the only correct way. Only idiots think that top-posting is the superior way.
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I didn't have to scroll down to figure out who he's referring to. If you are following the thread, (which I figure you're to stupid to do), you don't need to scroll down to figure out the progression of the thread.

it,
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Exactly. This Dizzy guy has some apparent real intelligence problems.

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