Toyota Quality

Gee, Toyota makes ONE mistake (albeit a fairly serious one), and you think that means that Toyotas are total crap?

I'm sure GM isn't perfect. I had a 1987 Buick LeSabre once that ended up having all kinds of engine problems after 15 years. I'd have expected it to last a little longer than that. But I always heard that many American cars in the 80s were crap, and I've heard they've gotten better since then. If you're a long-time GM loyalist, I'm sure you've patiently put up with some crappy products of theirs. I've heard Toyota's quality isn't what it used to be, but Toyota was once a leading car maker in terms of quality.

GM has made junk for decades. Maybe they are improving now. Time will tell.

Here is a link to the apparent story, as of this morning.

It would appear Toyota is still claiming the problem is aftermarket floormats, but are redesigning the accelerator pedal to try to foolproof the system. Fools always manage to find a way to bollix any safety system.

But the question is "Was this a quality issue?". As far as it goes right now, I would have to say the answer is "No".

GM knows how to stonewall quality issues. Look at how many years they made the 3800 vII engine with the substandard plenums.

With Toyota quality is generally the norm whereas at GM it is the exception. When GM rises to that level, IF it ever does, then it will be time to take another look at GM. Enjoy your Dexcool and gaskets and...

ONE MISTAKE???????????????

What rock have you been hiding under the past ten years???

The defects have forced Toyota to recall MILLIONS of vechices. At this point, int might be in the TENS of MILLIONS.

I've lost count at this point.

The problems are all across the board.

Sludge in the engines.

Hundreds of thousands of them. At least.

Acceratlors sticking open, causing serious crashes.

Rusting big time underneath the vechiles, causing serious satey issues.

The list goes on and on and on.

ONE MISTAKE??????????

Gimme a break!!!!!!!!!!!!

A fifteen year old Buick that had problems????????

Please tell me you have been sarcastic for this entire post!!

Not so at all.

In the year 2009, Toyota makes a lot of vechicles that have a LOT of problems.

Just like they did in 2008.

And 2007.

And 2006.

Check it out.

Recalled more vehicles than they sold during this period.

GM simply made a better product during this time.

But reality dont matter in todays world.

Only perception counts.

A fifteen year old Buick that had problems????????

**********************************************************************************

Which engine did the '87 have? I had an '83 Olds and an '83 Buick with the

3.8 liter and both needed new engines at about 100,000 and both died again with another 50,000 on the crappy engine. My '91 Buick had the new 3800 and it was excellent after 14 years and 150,000 miles although at the time lots of other stuff was happening that you'd expect on a car that old. My 2001 has the newer version and while the engine is good, everything else started going to crap after only 2 years and 40,000 miles.

Trust a GM lifer to be blind. Your bad.

The gasket problems, that every manufacture experienced including Toyota, was not the result of anything GM, Ford, Chrysler, Toyota or Honda did, it was what the gasket manufactures were forced to do.

Gasket failures were the direct result of the governments decisi> > Once again, some you you guys out there who constantly slam GM by

Not so at all.

In the year 2009, Toyota makes a lot of vechicles that have a LOT of problems.

Just like they did in 2008.

And 2007.

And 2006.

Check it out.

Recalled more vehicles than they sold during this period.

GM simply made a better product during this time.

But reality dont matter in todays world.

Only perception counts.

You would be correct if the gasket problems effected all vehicles across the board.

But the problem was confined to a select few brands and a select few engines within those brands.

The fact that the aftermarket was able to respond with better design gaskets in shorter time than the OEMs and their suppliers pretty much proves you wrong.

FYI, asbestos gaskets are still available, nothing was "banned."

FYI, non asbestos gaskets were in common use long before the current crop of problems appeared.

All you know to respond with is the current sales pitch from the guilty parties. Enough already.

Get real you don't know what you are talking about. Vehicle manufactories do not make gasket, OEM as well as after market gaskets, are made by the same companies. Not all engines, or gaskets, are made in the US

It was fleets service shops like mine that first became aware of the trouble with none asbestos gaskets. I was deposed by the court to testify in the Ford case against the gasket manufacturers

The fact is there were four different materials that were use to replace asbestos, two of which to worked, and two did not work. One of the two failed as early as 20,000 miles and the gaskets were replaced under warranty. The other failed much later, at around 70,000 miles and thus out of warranty. Toyota had plenty of head gasket failures, under warranty, on engines assembled in the US.

That was a problem for the vehicle manufacturers because the gasket manufacturers argued it was owner negligence. If owners properly maintained their vehicle, they would have discovered a degrading gasket long before the antifreeze contaminated the oil and destroyed the engine. It was Fords legal challenge that led to the gasket manufacturers settling out of court and ageing to pay 80% of the costs of the repairs for all the vehicle manufactures.

**********************************************************************************

My '87 had the 3.8L V6 engine.

Actually, I do.

Where/when did I say that they did?

So what? Are you stupid enough to believe that there aren't multiple product lines that fit the same application? Do you know who was the OE supplier to GM for the V-8 and V-6 intake manifold gaskets? (hint, their plant is about 14 miles from where I'm sitting right now)

That is -SO- profound.

Then it shouldn't be a problem to provide a link to that case which would certainly include your testimony.

And those four are?

And Mitsubishi had many more failures than Toyota on engines [that were] produced in Japan. Your claims are less than anecdotal.

Which Ford engine is it that you're rambling on about in this GM newsgroup?

Many of them did not make 100k. The newer version 38000 is OK, but some had manifold gasket problems.

Thank you, and well said.

What part of, "Fords legal challenge that led to the gasket manufacturers settling OUT OF COURT and agreeing to pay 80% of the costs of the repairs for ALL of the vehicle manufactures," did you not understand, dummy?

You are free to believe whatever you choose, no natter how convoluted that belief may be. What I posted is factual whether you chose to agree or not is immaterial. One can not enlighten one who does not wish to be enlightened LOL

That may be your opinion, but it is factually incorrect. The gasket companies clearly showed the court that casket failures were NEVER catastrophic, but gradual. That is why they blamed owner negligence as the cause of the engine failures.

Their pointed to the fact that the failure of the gasket was a result of the material in certain gaskets was shrinking, over time, and pulling away from the metal cladding. When that occurred heat was no longer being drawn away. Once the cladding burned away the coolant would mist into the cylinder resulting in gradual loss of coolant.

The loss of coolant SHOULD have been detected, if the vehicle was properly maintained, and the failing gasket could have been changed long before any significant damage to the engine occurred. In our case that was exactly what we discovered was occurring and we were changing gaskets before and significant damage to the engine occurred and we notified the vehicle manufacture(s) of those engine is which it was occurring.

In their opinion the Gasket warranty should only cover the cost of its replacement. They pointed the number of gaskets claims, they paid to the various vehicle manufactures, that WERE replaced before any engine damage occurred.

Don't know the details of reimbursement, but the main issue here is not doing a recall. Basically what you're saying is the customer has to anticipate a gasket failure, and won't get over his sense of impending doom that until the gasket is actually failing and putting coolant in the oil. Then go begging to the dealer with coolant in your bearings and lifters. Bad, bad, bad. No way to live with a car. You slice it how you want to. BTW, the gaskets were plastic-clad. The metal clad gaskets weren't produced until 2006. Made for the '97 forward models. By scouring the Bonneville forum I found that they work fine on the 95-96 models too - just ignore they overhang the block- but GM would give you the old plastic garbage if you told them it was a 95-96. I just told the parts guy to give me the '97 gasket and made sure it was the aluminum clad. Didn't bother discussing anything with him after I commented that I was hoping GM would pull out of its trouble. He answered by ragging on the union instead of talking about car quality. Dickhead. Still hope GM can pull out though. I need my supply of cheap used Chevys.

--Vic

The fact remains is one did the proper preventive maintenance they should have detected the gradual coolant loss.

GM did extend the warranty for out of warranty vehicles after the out of court settlement. What more did you expect it to do?