Toyota set to surpass GM in 2007

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Well, Mike, if they really already know about the quality issues, the loss of sales and profitability, and the dissatisfaction that is growing in their customer base, and sit on their asses and do not address it, then they should be fired. The company is doomed with this sort of management.
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know?
sort
I whole heartedly agree. I honestly believe the management does know all of these things - how could they not? They'd have to be living in a vacuum and flat out ignoring every bit of press and every industry pundit out there not to realize what the complaints are. Not to mention that such issues as the intake gasket debacle could never have escaped their awareness. I believe that whole thing was a management decision. After all, people would never quit buying GM products, right?
What I am most interested in seeing is whether they clean house and get rid of the good old boys, and remake the company as a competitive venture. To do so is not rocket science once you get rid of all the old ways and the old guys. Companies do it every day.
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wrote in message

I respectfully disagree. There are probably not even 100 regular posters to this group. That isn't very many people to get info from. This isn't the Neilson TV ratings system. :-P

We are talking about the number 1 car manufacture in the world. That would be like Wal Mart watching there newsgroup. I just can't see them paying anyone, or even letting anyone watch them. Too much at stake.

Once again, I disagree. There are many other places to get information from. Anyone who has been using newsgroups for awhile will tell you there is (at times) more B.S. going around then there is truth.

No offence, but that is a huge difference. I am not a huge company.
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wrote in message

Well I for one was not attempting to bash GM in any way. It does burn my butt to see foreigners taking over this Country and doing it because we let them. Take a visit to a GM dealer and look how the sales people are busting tail to sell their product. Then stop by the local Toyota dealer and just watch how they are selling autos with no effort at all. In fact you have to wait in line to even talk about a deal. If GM engineers don't get off their obese rumps and design better quality autos we'll all be forced to buy foreign in the very near future. I personally would like to see GM come forth and take the lead in sales but that is not going to happen if they just continue business as usual. The writing is on the wall.
Finally, yes those same engineers I just called obese are reading this, you can bank on it. One of the more prominent rules of success is to know where you stand at all times. They read it because they know their competition reads it.
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Your post is an excellent example of why GM doesn't read newsgroups. They already know that they are in trouble. They don't need you to tell them. Perhaps you think your reference to "obese" engineers will be helpful to them. What they want, IMO, is *verifiable* information, so maybe you could tell us all how many of their engineers are obese. Or were you just talking out your "obese" ass? This group is increasingly populated by pot stirrers and people with anti GM sentiments, whether deserved or not and NOTHING they say is verifiable. What possible value is any of it to GM. A problem without documentation, is not a problem. They have much better sources, I'm sure. Those who think that the execs and engineers at GM have nothing better to do than sit around reading NG's really need to get a grip.
Dave
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The engineers are very capable of designing a better car. It is the budgets that get in the way. 50 here and a $1 there certainly add up when you build millions of cars. Add $100 to the cost of a car and you'd have much better reliability in some areas. The problem, IMO, is that the US automakers figure the cure for problems is just to buy another car. That is what GM told me to do when I had a simple seat problem.
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Edwin Pawlowski wrote:

Heh, that reminds me of an experience I had at a (notoriously poor) Dodge dealership in Pittsburgh years ago. I needed an ignition switch for my '67 Dart, which was old enough even then that it wasn't in the computerized system. The parts counter guy was rolling his eyes and audibly sighing at having to actually FLIP PAGES to order my $12 part. Finally he just busted out "why don't you just buy a new car?" I couldn't help but laugh. First of all, if I could have afforded a new car, would I have been driving an old Dart with so many dents and different color body panels? College student and new car do not generally go together. Secondly if I had bought a new car in 1996, it probably wouldn't have been a Dodge...
anyway, I eventually got my part and never went back to the dealership. Lesson learned.
nate
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budgets
Ed, with all due respect to you, if budgets were the problem, WHY did GM continue to use the troublesome plastic plenums on the 3800 Series II for so many years?
Introducing an upgraded manifold or plenum would have cost them nothing. They transfer costs to the OEM supplier.
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It took some period of time to find that there was indeed a flaw. Once found, I agree that something should have been done, but the cost would have to be borne by GM. After all, if GM designers specified and approved the design and material, they have the responsibility, not the manufacturer. The OEM was only making what GM asked them to do.
Today you decide to have bacon and eggs for breakfast and your local diner cook makes it for you. Great, glad you enjoyed it. Tomorrow, you decide that eggs and peanut butter would be good so you ask the cook to make it for you. You determine it sucks and won't finish it. Should you still pay? Sure he made what you asked for. Same as with plastic plenums.
The real question is why did it take so long to correct a known problem once it became known? Was it the fault of poor continuing engineering or lack of budget for an engineering review?
If the OEM was using the wrong material, the parts were out of spec, then the OEM would be responsible for correcting the problem. Until we know who specified what, the question is not properly answerable.
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Edwin Pawlowski wrote:

Because they buy in suck large quantity they had to finish off the stock of bad parts before ordering the new ones. The cost of the part is measureable to an accountant where the cost of damaged brand identity is not.
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of
This answer is pretty credible...They may not take delivery in enormous quantities, but I suspect they commit to long term contracts for them...To make a change in a contract is probably not palatable to GM accountants.
And, as long as there is brand loyalty, the clients could just pay the dealerships the better part of a thousand bucks to replace the plenums which were out of warranty.
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of
That logic only goes so far. The intake gasket problems ran for 15 years. No company - not even GM stocks inventory for a 15 year run up front. This was nothing more than neglect of a design problem foisted on the consuming public.
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Anyone who thinks that executives of any company keep tabs on usenet newsgroups is a bigger fool than what they are calling those executives.
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Mike Marlow wrote:

And the results show it, I'd say.
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It isnt the job of executives to personally keep tabs on public opinion.
GM and other companies hire people within the corporation and external providers to provide this sort of information.
When Consumer Reports rags on GM products, whether justified or not, it counteracts millions in advertising and marketing. When you ignore your customers, you are headed for a fall.
In the company I work for (actually worked for...I resigned last Thursday), you can bet they know what the client is saying about our products and processes. We are dependent upon a much smaller client base than GM, but they are enormous spenders. We usually garner higher than average prices because we are seen as being the absolute best suppliers to the market and are presently the largest company of our kind in the world..
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Thursday),
company
Again, I agree Dave, but my point was that executives do not rely on usenet as the forum for that input. I bet your company didn't either. As you stated, (regardless of our own opinions...) Consumer Reports and other critical assessment vehicles make far more reliable forums. Dealer feedback is another very valuable forum for the manufacturers. There's no shortage of input and I'm quite certain the manufacturers are well aware of what is being said about them.
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Unfortunately, the bigger a company gets, the less they want to hear from their customers. They hire marketing research people instead.
It's too bad ! You can find the smallest "Ma&Pa" retailer on the internet, send them an eMail, ask a question about their product, and you'll get a prompt reply.
Try doing that with any of the US auto makers...... There IS a BUICK website..... but, try sending them a message.
<rj>
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80 Knight wrote:

And that attitude, my friends, speaks volumes as to why GM is where they are. Eventually there is no one left to tell that to...except the person with the attitude standing all alone with nothing left to do but turn the lights out (assuming the electricity is still on). Geesh! "80 Knight" must work for GM Customer Service (based on my personal experience dealing with the Chevrolet customer service people, the MO sounds quite familiar!)
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Well, since you had a bad experience with Chevy, everyone else must as well. Note the sarcasm in that line. If you don't like GM, that is fine with me, but the question is, why are you still here? Why be in a group where discussion surrounds something you dislike? It makes no sense, other then to piss off the group's population.
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80 Knight wrote:

Dislike?
Heck, I love my kids and trust me, they've gotten a LOT worst than this! ;-)
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