Toyota versus Chevy

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Hey Natalie! You don't have to say it. I did it again. This "Built_Well" came into the GM group, attempting to bait people, and he got me. I do usually try and trim the headers in my post's, as I don't like posting (or cross-posting) to groups I don't participate in, but I neglected to do so this time. Anywho, how is everyone in your neck of the woods?
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"80 Knight" ...

Other than a bunch of now-that-you're-middle-aged-we'll-strip-you-of-any-dignity tests lately, pretty much the same.
My son got promoted to the "Geek Squad" at Best Buy (no, he doesn't drive the VWs, as those are the "Double Agents"
You?
Natalie
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You have always had a way with words! Don't worry though. Your dignity will always be present here. :)

Congratulations to your son! I used to work for Best Buy's other electronics store Future Shop. The job was alright, and the discounts were incredible.

Nothing much new here. Waiting for the first frost to get here so that damned ragweed goes away! Allergies are a pain. Other then that, the oldest started high school today, and wow am I worried. She's a good kid, but I remember what those 14-year old boys were like when I was in high school, and its an awful lot worse now. But, like I said, she's a good kid, with a good head on her shoulders...and she knows to tell the boys that I am much bigger then they are ;-)
Glad to hear from you Natalie. And, I'll try and behave myself. :)
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I heard just the other day that one of the Big Three will no longer pour blocks here in Amerika. All their engine production will be in China.
Be careful who you indict.
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You gotta watch these Toyota guys. They are not content to stay in their own group and sing the praises of these masterpieces, they have to come over to the GM group, and BTW, while they are there, take the opportunity to bash GM cars.
Have owned numerous GM cars and trucks over the past 31 years, and have never had even one to be unreliable in any way. Of course, if I didnt like them to begin with, I might look for an excuse to not buy one, maybe such as a radio light not working correctly.

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snipped-for-privacy@hotmail.com wrote:

You sound like my father, he tells me how reliable all his Chevy's are constantly. When I bring up the new engine and two transmission in 130,000 miles on his previous truck he has no answer. No answer as well to the 3 complete brake jobs, or transmission problems with his 01 Silverado at ~80000 miles.
My definition of reliable is quite different from his.
b
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wrote:

I have a friend that makes exactly the same excuses for his Toyotas. He has owned two small Toyota trucks. The first one required two transmission rebuilds and one engine overhaul in less than 150,000 miles. His current one has made it to 140,000 miles and so far has only needed one replacement engine. And yet, he still raves about the of Toyotas. To be honest the current truck is pretty old (early 90's), but still needing an engine replaced in less than 150,000 is not a good sign.
Ed
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wrote:

It would indicate to me that his resulrts indicate a lack of proper maintenance, which many owners are guilty of.
If the oil and filter is changed every 3000 miles with dino oil and every 5000 miles with pure synthetic those engines should last to almost a million mile.
Taxi cabs commonly get a minimum of 500,000 miles out of their vehicles , which are considered severe service driving (city)
I know they change oil and filter at least once a month on a regular basis.
I had an `86 Accord-4 auto,which when it was totaled ,had over 359,000 miles on it when it was totaled
The engine ran like new and only used a liter of oil in 1000 miles at that time.(used dino Diesel rated oil).
My `92 accord was in the same category with about 320,000 MILEs on it . Wife totaled that one .
The only mechanical thing I did to them was adjust the valves when neccessary and I changed the oil and filter every 2400-3000 MILES. (Dino oil)
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wrote:

C.E. we all know you are lying. Toyotas NEVER break down!
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Mine probably is, also. Lost one transmission out of all the GM vehicles I have ever owned (ironically, it was on my very first one, a 1976 Chevy Nova SS I bought new, and had to replace the trany at 160,000 miles), most people I talk to say that it is a pretty reliable record. Of course, I have never talked to a Toyota owner who has EVER lost a tranmission regardless of how many miles or number of vehicles he has owned. Still waiting on my first engine failure, though, so I guess these GM's arent a TOTAL piece of junk.
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Just out of curiosity, which "problem" do you consider the worst, and more likely to make you consider changing models, the 87 Celica power antnenna rusting/seizing, or the radio problems on your Montana?
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snipped-for-privacy@hotmail.com wrote:

The display problem is worse. I have to look at it every day and can't see the time or the station info, most of which is on the LHS - where the light went out.
The antenna seized after the second winter, so I just disconnected the power and left it up. Not a problem except if I wanted to drive through a car wash, and I always used a gun. Replacing the module would have cost maybe $60, not $400.
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80 Knight wrote:

Well the last 3 GM's I had were all built outside of America. Not sure how buying them saved any American jobs.
I say buy the best product....whatever that product is. You shouldn't subsidize incompetence. It's funny, I always said that Toyota was just like GM (bland, mostly boring vehicles), but reliable. It's proving true to the market. I still wouldn't buy either one because of the looks.
b
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LOL.. My 05 corolla was built in California... Most of the profit probably went back to Japan, but they paid workers, etc, so it's not totally bad.. We've had U.S cars that were built in Canada... And it seems I've seen some that were built in Mexico, or at least a lot of the parts seemed to be.

Yep, thats about the way I see it.. I see good vehicles made by both sides.. But to get what I wanted, which was max mpg for a non complicated car, I had to go with either the corolla , or a civic. The american brands of that year range didn't quite do as well in general. They seem to have killed off some of the models I might have considered for heavier cars. The corolla gets a solid 41 mpg on the highway if I do 65, and thats with the automatic. Not many U.S cars would do that, if any that I can think of. I just drove over 900 miles just this past weekend, as I went up to my place in OK for the weekend. Being as I go up there a lot, it saves me a load of $$$ for gas. I check that mpg every time I go to OK.. It's the same every time. And for some reason, Oklahoma is getting bent over for gas lately. I'm not sure what the deal is. In the past, as recently as Feb, March, the gas prices up there were appx the same as Houston, Dallas, etc.. Hardly ever more than 5-10 cents difference. But now... Gas in most stations at McAlester, Eufaula, etc were running 2.99 a gallon this past weekend. Cross over into TX, and it drops 30 cents right off the bat. Dallas and Houston both right now average 2.54-2.55 a gallon at many places. I've even seen it at cheap stations in the 2.40's range. Needless to say, I don't buy gas in OK lately.. I wait till I get back to TX.. And it's easy to do getting 40+ mpg.. Those people up in OK are getting bent over, and I can't see any real reason for it. Seems to be a recent change too. I wonder if most there even realize they are getting the hook..? Maybe you don't notice if you never go anywhere else.. As far as chevies, we had a 02 Impala for a while. It was a pretty good car. But.. It didn't get no 40 mpg.. More like 25-27. BTW, I've put almost 11k on the corolla since March, and no problems so far.. Rap on wood...It now has about 35k total. I did have a Evap problem, but that was cuz I overfilled the gas tank and flooded the canister. It dried up, and cleared the codes on it's own.. It's had enough run cycles by now, it should be totally clean as far as the OBD2 puter.. Anyway, as you can see, mpg is a big issue to me lately.. The less I have to give to the oil companies, the better. :/ MK
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The Corolla is no longer made at the GM/Toyota plant in California, it is made in Canada where Toyota can build if with more parts made overseas in a non union plant.
The California plants union contract requires 70% of the parts and the materials they are made of to be American, not north American but American. That plant now makes the small Toyota truck and the Pontiac Vibe. The Vibes Toyota twin, the Matrix, is also made in Canada more cheaply than the Vibe, but the Matrix will cost you more to buy when similarly equipped the same as the Vibe. Go figure
mike

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On Sep 4, 4:33 pm, snipped-for-privacy@wt.net wrote:

Got an 06 Pontiac Grand Prix, myself, along with a 98 GP GTP. Both are wonderful cars. Very dependable. Bought both new, and have had few problems, NONE of which would be considered to be the type to affect the dependability, whatsoever. The 06 has NEVER been to the garage, other to change the oil three times.
Just took the 06 on a 400 mile trip this past weekend. The computer calculated the trip to average 31.3 MPG. I checked when I got home and filled back up and calculated that the on board computer was, indeed, accurate. I also should mention that during the trip, I set my cruise control at 75 MPH.
Now, trying to compare the Corolla and it's 41 MPG (at 65 MPH, which I guess would drop considerably if it were driven at 75 MPH) with my GP, is not really fair, as you are trying to compare two different types of cars, but, I'll try, anyway:
Based on the MPG's of the two cars, it would have costed me about 8 dollars more than the Corolla. (Based on gasoline being 3.00 a gallon)
But, I would have, based on the averaged speeds given for the posted gas mileage, have traveled the 400 miles nearly a full hour quicker than the slower, but more fuel effecient, Toyota, certainly worth more than the 8 dollars I would have saved if I bought a Toyota, and then slowed down.
I also could have seated five passengers more confortably and loaded their luggage easier than the Toyota could.
And, if I needed to get to my destination even more quickly, my 200 horsepower 3.8 V-6 could do the job.
Do I need to add that the car is a whole lot nicer looking than the Toyota?

Dont know how you drove the Impala, but I bet it had to be considerably differently than the way you drive your Toyota. My "98 GTP will CONSISENTLY average 27.5-28 MPG highway when driven at 80 miles per hour. Has done it since I bought it new, nearly 9 and a half years ago. If I slow it down to 70, my milage has no trouble hitting 30 MPG, or even slightly better. Your Impala, I'm sure, had the 3.8 V-6, minus the supercharger my GTP has.

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I have a 03 Max that I would guess is bigger on the inside although perhaps a couple of inches shorter on the outside. Should be a fair comparison.
> Just took the 06 on a 400 mile trip this past weekend. The computer > calculated the trip to average 31.3 MPG. I checked when I got home and > filled back up and calculated that the on board computer was, indeed, > accurate. I also should mention that during the trip, I set my cruise > control at 75 MPH.
I can get about 480 miles on 14G on the highway thanks to my tall 6th gear. That's somewhere ~34 mpg using cruise control.

Well my car has the 3.5 VQ motor that is the only motor to be listed by Ward's as a top ten engine every year they have had the award. No other engine has done that. I also have 255/245 HP/TQ to pull me to ~14.3 1/4 miles and low 6 second 0-60's. My car also has a Helical LSD so that I have almost no torque steer even on very aggressive launches and helps me get full acceleration through the corners. My car will easily sit 5 with full legroom in the backseat even with my seat all the way back. Huge trunk.
Can you even get a manual transmission with a GP? No sedan can be considered *sport* without one IMO. I wouldn't buy a car that wasn't manual.

Looks are purely subjective, the GP's are OK, but they are no Infiniti G35. Now that's a sexy damn car. And my next purchase ;-) 07 Sport 6M.....sweet ass ride.
b
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I have the 4.0L version of the Nissan DOHC V-6 in my Frontier. I am unimpressed. I can out drag race most other pick-ups, but the engine is ridiculously "peaky." No problem buring the tires down to the rims, but just try to start off with a load in a field - thank goodness for 4WD and limited slip, otherwise the truck would just bury one wheel. My Father's old Ranger has a better "truck" engine. Maybe in a car for boy racers it is acceptable to have an engine tuned like a F1 motor, but in the real world, it seems silly. I want effortless acceleration, not noise and smoke. I am stuck with the Frontier for at least another year (and probably 10), but I do wish I'd spent the extra money and bought a Tacoma instead, or spent a lot less and bought a Ranger.

I am through with manuals (unless I get a Honda S2000). What is the advantge of a manual over an automatic that allows manual selection of gears?

I am not a GM guys (and really not a Pontiac guy). However, on a recent vacation in Texas we rented a Grand Prix with the supercharged 3.8L V-6. I was very impressed. Terrific power, extremely quiet. The gas mileage was decent (considering I was driving 80 most of the time - except when we were in the mountains). I found the seats very comfortable. The rear seat was good too, although most of the time there was only one person back there. I hated the red/orange displays, and the car's appearance was not to my taste. All in all, I'd say it was a really good car, certainly the best rental car I every had. I am not planning on buying one, but I think anyone who is looking for a car of that sort (an over done pretentious "sports sedan") should try one.
Ed
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On Thu, 6 Sep 2007 08:22:23 -0400, "C. E. White"

Get a Tundra...
--
Scott in Florida

About all I can say for the United States Senate
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wrote:

Well prior to buying the Frontier, I tried to buy a Tundra - the previous version, not the new cartoon Tundra.. I had four problems with the Tundra - piston slap (three of three I test drove exhibited piston slap), limited head room, a battleship like turning radius, and dealers that were total jerks. We have three Toyota dealers in the immediate area. I shopped all three. In every case they would quote you a somewhat attractive price, but when you got down to the final stages ridiculous fees magically appeared. The Nissan dealer quoted me a good price and there were no surprises at the end. I'd give the local Nissan dealer a B+ and all three Toyota Dealers an F- for sales service. The new Tundra is of no interest to me. If I wanted a Silverado, I'd buy one at the Chevy dealer for a lot less. I do like the Tacoma, but the prices are significantly higher than for the Frontier. However, after 19 months with the Frontier, I wish I had tried harder to buy a Tacoma. My SO had to go to a dealer 50 miles away to get a decent deal on a RAV4. I wish I had gone there to price a Tacoma. To be fair, the Frontier has not been horrible. I've had it back to the dealer three times, but for minor things. The gas mileage is worse than expected, not much different than my old 1992 F150 (but the F150 was only 2WD). I think my three biggest complaints are the ridiculously peaky engine, cramped cab (seems smaller inside than my Dad's old Ranger), and interior plastic that seems to attract dust. On the other hand, the 4WD system is good, the transmission is good, it came with good tires, and it is very quiet at highway speeds. The truck has just passed 37,000 miles and there have been no out of warranty problems. The truck was bought for farm use, and I'll probably keep it for 12 to 14 years (the F150 was 15 years old when I sold it) unless it really p*&^es me off.
Ed
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