Toyotas are for those who like to waste money on a false perception

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wrote:


It has an awful lot to do with build quality.
Take my Jeep Wranglers, for example.
Both of them had problems with water pumps, radiators, rear brake cylinders, sway bar links, rear gate latches, climate control knobs, and more, but the aftermarket replacement parts have been of far higher quality. All of the problems happened early in the ownership experience, some were actually "fixed" with warranty parts that failed in exactly the same manner as the original! <G> In the case of the brake cylinders, my1 '89 and '99 had the same problem!
On the other hand, if Toyota does a drop top FJ, I'm done with Wranglers! I've had occasional Toyotas with issues, all were solved by improved OEM replacement parts on the first try. Why? Toyota changed the part in response to a problem.
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Gosi wrote:

http://www.businessweek.com/ap/financialnews/D8I3H4QO0.htm?sub=apn_home_down&chan
is that how they justify their over-pricing? Then again, I guess its not over pricing if people pay it :(
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ShoeSalesman wrote:

Same as good shoes...
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Bad analogy. People are paying from $20 to over $100 for a pair of sneakers. The cost of which to make runs between less than a dollar up to only around $15. If the shoe is not made of leather they cost even less to make ;)
mike hunt

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B A R R Y wrote:

not even close to what I meant.....
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ShoeSalesman wrote:

I think we knew that
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ShoeSalesman wrote:

If I buy something that has better quality, better looks and better resale, it might just be worth it.
If I take your logic and reverse it, I could say that if I buy junk, it's probably not a bargain.
BTW, I don't now nor have I ever owned a Toyota.
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Lee Florack wrote:

I think you missed my point.... It was SIMPLY this: Toyotas are overpriced. Thats it, nothing more :) Especially the freekin used ones!
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ShoeSalesman wrote:

Actually, I understood that the first time. MY point is that they probably are NOT overpriced because when compared to most (not all) other makes, initial quality is better, long-term quality is much better and resale value is much, much better (what you're complaining about).
Again, I have never owned a Toyota product. (I own a Honda CRV and a Acura RL.) However, Toyota quality and reliability makes them worth more than many other vehicles.
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That is the same reason some folks will pay 20% to 30% more to buy them than their competators vehicles, they think they are that much 'better.' However obvioulsy more buyers are not willing to pay the premium to drive them home because they do not believe that. In the real world Americans buy more of the vehicles sold by GM and Ford. ;)
. MY point is that they

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Mike Hunter wrote:

There you go -- top posting again. I know I'm wasting my time, but please stop.
I don't know where you get the 20%-30% premium for Toyota and Hondas vehicles, but even if it were true, it may actually be worth it to get a better vehicle that retains it's resale value much, much better.
As to your second point about people buying more Ford and GM products... What will you say when very soon (probably this year) Toyota becomes the most popular vehicle brand (in terms of sales). This is not only because Toyota will increase it's sales but because GM and Ford will be decreasing the number of vehicles they make -- simply because they cannot sell all of them without massive incentives -- that hurt their already bleeding bottom line.
As I said in an earlier message, GM and Ford have been making many more vehicles than are needed because they need to cover the basic (and massive) infrastructure costs. I know all of this will be brushed off by you (you have repeatedly been told all of this and more by many people), but maybe others will read it and understand what's really going on. GM is either going to cut production levels, workforce, union (salary and healthcare) costs, infrastructure costs and stop offering such massive incentives or they will continue their very rapid slide into oblivion. Personally, I think it's too late but I hope I'm wrong. Oh, another thing they need to do is start making vehicles (other than SUV's and pickups) that people actually want to buy.
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Lee There is nothing wrong with top posting, most of the time I do not want to page down through a bunch of text that I read before.
I do agree with your opinion concerning the main issue of the discussion about the quality ratings.
In the OLD DAYS back in the early - mid 1990's bottom posting was considered the only correct form to use, as we say in NYC dem daz iz long gone :)

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dbltap wrote:

You are entitled to your opinion but the very justification you wrote indicates you're being lazy when you do it and you care less about making it easy to read for everyone and more about making it easy for you. BTW, your opinion is not shared by the vast majority of newsgroup participants.

Thanks
Why do you believe it changed?
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Lee, It has changed because in the good old days there was a very small group of people that were on Usenet. By the nature of Usenet at that time it was a fast and easy process to page down through the follow up posts. Today with the volume of replies, it has become time consuming to go through some of the threads that can have 20-25 replies.
I am not lazy and will forgive you for calling me that, what I am is time challenged and wasting it on going through material that has been read is nonproductive for me and many others. Social customs change over time. That is just a fact of life even though some of us might not like the changes.

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I must agree with dbltap.
I prefer to read top postings. When I am following a long thread the last thing I want to do is scroll or page through 20 + postings. Yes of course the reply can be inserted below the appropriate paragraph, placed at the end of thread or just the appropriate segment excerpted and commented on. However insertions are hard to recognize and read quickly, and excerpts defeat the said purpose of bottom posting which is to leave the original discussions intact.
If you need to place a comment in contex you can always start at the beginning of the thread and work your way through it (unless you're lazy :)).
Yes I know this is top posting, I use OE but at least I am not posting from AOL. I also realize that the top/bottom posting controversy probably has used more bandwidth on usenet than any other subject.
Howard

making
BTW,
participants.
discussion
long
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Howard Nelson wrote:

@@@@You guys need to try Mozilla Thunderbird.@@@@

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My vote is for top posting.
On Sun, 11 Jun 2006 17:35:32 GMT, "Howard Nelson"

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SgtSilicon wrote:

Idiot.
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dizzy, 6/12/2006,9:14:56 PM, wrote:

There you go signing your name without commenting again...
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So, do what clever people do, and start snipping non-required portions.. See here, I'm replying tot his paragraph.

And now this one. Yes, social customs change over time. Doesn't mean that the change is for the better. the change in everyday social customs 9such as respect of property 0is a change, but not for the better, and which only a few seem to think is changing to their advantage.
Top posting is annoying, as it gives no indication of exactly what you're rseponding to. Extranious info, just <snip> it. Its very simple.

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