Toyotas recall

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as I read in all the newspapers and groups about the gas pedal recall, I cant rejoice in this recall and the reaction of the news and press I have seen Ford and GM also slammed in the news the
same way. I find it hard to believe that a company would let something like this go on. I am sure mistakes were made maybe even coverups by some at a lower level. Anyone that has worked at a large corp. has seen things happen but without the whole picture let things go. There have been many accerlation problems across the board caused by floor mats. One happened to me, once to a brother in law, and once to a son In law. They didn't cause any accidents thank goodness.
I guess the only thing I can blame toyota for is not reacting fast enough.
I worked in GM for years designing, building, and maintaining production machinery as much as we tried to foolproof things, things still fail.
ll auto companys have the same problems, use the same suppliers, tear each others cars down to the last bolt to review latest products etc. I think the top 5 or 6 companys all make equal cars. That said my choice is to buy american based company cars with the most american made content and even that is hard to figure out.
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It would be interesting to learn who covered up the discovery and failed to pass it on to his superior, or, what was the assessment that ignored this deficiency. Perhaps more importantly, is how did this failure occur ? Did the CAE/FEA fail somewhere, or was it in the implementation/ integration of the assembly into the design? But then again, we have to remember the corporate intregal component known as jaded thinking that gave us exploding gas tanks in the 70s.
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It would be interesting to learn who covered up the discovery and failed to pass it on to his superior, or, what was the assessment that ignored this deficiency. Perhaps more importantly, is how did this failure occur ?
How do you know there was a coverup? Let's get the facts, then make a decision on what may be the good or evil involved here. Too much still not known.
A problem like this can happen to any of the car makers due to an unseen flaw in either design or materials.
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But, but, but, you loyalist always have insisted Toyota is infallible, their vehicles last forever. Does the King have no clothes?
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Mike Hunter wrote:

Even you Mikey could never dream of GM 'fessing up like Toyota did. 'Course they still shot themselves in both feet-in true GM fashion.
--
Civis Romanus Sum

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Perhaps, but who currently has the greatest number of RECALLS? ;)
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Purely a guess, Chrysler.
On 30/01/2010 10:52 AM, Mike Hunter wrote:

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As one would expect, you are wrong again. It starts with a "T," and the total is 4.2 million vehicles LOL
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sure, the problem can manefest anywhere, but consider my question again, everything is modeled and tested beforehand- didn't any pedal stickiness or stiffness show up anywhere ? frankly, I doubt there was no indication anywhere; someone saw it and hid it/(or not); someone shugged their sholders and figured it wasn't much, that to go back and re engineer the assembly wasn't worth it.people should know.
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sure, the problem can manefest anywhere, but consider my question again, everything is modeled and tested beforehand- didn't any pedal stickiness or stiffness show up anywhere ? frankly, I doubt there was no indication anywhere; someone saw it and hid it/(or not); someone shugged their sholders and figured it wasn't much, that to go back and re engineer the assembly wasn't worth it.people should know. ****** All the world loves a conspiracy theory... Look at the GM manifold problems...Had to be a conspiracy.
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"hls" wrote:
sure, <an unseen flaw in design or materials> can manifest itself anywhere, but everything is modeled and tested beforehand- didn't any pedal stickiness or stiffness show up anywhere ? frankly, I suspect someone saw it and hid it; someone shrugged their shoulders and figured that to go back and re-engineer the assembly wasn't worth it.... ____________________________________________________________________
It's likely that the models worked on paper, and that prototypes passed mechanical tests for everything they could imagine, but they failed to imagine everything.
Whatever the ultimate resolution of the pedal problem is , the fly-by-wire gas pedal will always be unsafe compared to a mechanical cable. Each electrical/electronic component in the engine control chain ( sensors, computers, controllers, relays, switches) has its own set of failure modes, and serial failure probabilities multiply each other. It is suicidal to add another electronic failure multiplier at the gas pedal, further risking engine runaway, while at the same time taking away the mechanical cable assembly that would at least have let you save your own life by slamming the throttle closed.
The Amish and the Luddites didn't get everything wrong.
Rodan.
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I didnt write this. I know it is very possible for a good design to have some finite percentage of failures when it is implemented into hardward.

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Not really, if the fuel system defaults to OFF when the foot brake is applied, as is the case with most other manufactures FBW systems.

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YABUT LOL
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wrote:

First , AFAIK, it is not stickiness or stiffness that is the problem. The car accelerates on its own, no input from the driver. The problem is electrical, not mechanical in nature from what I've read.
They may have manufactured a million of these and then one component change a tiny bit. New batch of material, something different in the process, a single batch that was over or under heat treated, or perhaps one of hundreds of possibilities.
Having spent most of my life in the manufacturing business, I've seen jobs run for years and suddenly a problem comes up for an hour or three on one shift, goes away and is not found until the customer gets the product in final use months later.
You may be right, you may be wrong, but to draw any conclusion based on supposition is just plain silly. Let's get fact first. To accuse someone of hiding a flaw is unprofessional at best, libelous at worst.
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Just now I am watching a TV show about a woman whose BMW supposedly accelerated wildly, ending in an accident that killed two of her passengers. Other examples of that sort of wild acceleration were cited. Maybe it was the cruise control failure, and maybe it was reckless driving in that case.
This sort of problem was also claimed in Audis a few years ago.
Best to find out what the truth is before hanging the messinger.
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Perhaps you should search the result of the ligation following the at Audi incident in New York that led to the uproar and brake petal shift locks.
The dealer won the suit against the cars owner because tests proved it was driver error and not a mechanism problem with the Audi. Unfortunately the dealership went bankrupt and Audi almost left the US, in the interim.

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I wasn't aware the problem was not mechanical; mechanics are fairly well understood and modeled- thus my thoughts tended to the scenario I described; however, a bluetooth or fly by wire interface is entirely different- I always considered that too suspect for personal transportation- the sheer number of units would more likely manifest an occurance of interference, or remote probability flaw
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According to new reports, Toyota warranty claims indicate Toyota has been aware of the problems for several years.
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sure, the problem can manefest anywhere, but consider my question again, everything is modeled and tested beforehand- didn't any pedal stickiness or stiffness show up anywhere ? frankly, I doubt there was no indication anywhere; someone saw it and hid it/(or not); someone shugged their sholders and figured it wasn't much, that to go back and re engineer the assembly wasn't worth it.people should know.
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Which means GM was also.
On 30/01/2010 10:54 AM, Mike Hunter wrote:

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