Transmission cost

I had two that failed at 100K, with good service. Both freaking GM Metric shitteaux 440T4's. Many in that series didnt make it to 100K, just as some Ford and Chrysler transmissions of late have been very prone to failure, no matter what you do to them.

Still, given the option of buying a well maintained and serviced used car, and buying one from an owner that chooses NOT to service the transmission, or to run extended oil intervals, etc...the choice for me is clear.

Hate to break the news to you but my 1997 Dodge van has bands that have to be adjusted. Admittedly, this is not a GM application, and this vehicle is older than the car the OP referenced, but in generic terms, some transmissions one may encounter nowadays still have adjustable bands.

You would have a valid point if it made a difference. I do change engine oil on a regular basis, but at the intervals suggested by the manufacturer, not some Quickie Lube place that wants you back every three weeks to take your money.

In my years of ownership of cars with automatic transmissions, following your suggestion I'd have had service at least 15 times, maybe more. At today's dollar it would have cost me $1200+ and have NO gain. Why should I spend the money? It made no difference in the life of the car. Sounds silly to me, but your money is your money.

You're right, it is. And you can do anything you wish with your money and your cars. I just dont want to end up with one of them.

I'm crushed by the news. Well, maybe not quite crushed... Actually your point is well taken. I was certainly thinking GM transmissions so mine was a rather short sighted statement.

Missing a good deal. The few I've sold that were not used up kept running for years.

No matter what you say on here, somebody will come up with an exception, Mike. I pretty much knew where you were coming from.

My 'plenty fine' Dodge van is beginning to be an old car now, not modern at all, but tough as dirt.

You could be right, Ed ;>)

I think that the transmission flush is totally bogus, dreamed up by marketing types. I think that is likely to do more damage that good. It forces oil backwards from normal flow disturbing stuff that would be best left alone and may damage the filter since it was not designed to support flow in that direction. It probably wouldn't remove much of the trapped dirt anyway. The flushing would not remove the metal that is stuck to the magnet that is attached to most oil pans. If the filter was replaced and the magnet cleaned after the flush, I would almost buy into it.

Transmission fluid is not contaminated by combustion by products like engine oil is. With this in mind it is not necessary to change all the fluid.

Dropping the pan, changing the filter and cleaning the pan is the only thing that needs to be done.

The only situation that I see a possible benefit to flushing is when the fluid shows evidence of damage like burning. And then only if the filter is changed afterwards. Likely though, the damage is already done and it will not help.

Now just how did they determine your transmission was that bad? How is it working? What is the mileage?

This has always been my impression too, Scott, and I have seen this method touted as a good way of generating extra revenue.

If the car manufacturers felt this was so important, surely they - not the dealerships - would champion it strongly.

I normally service my own transmissions, but the last time I had the local independent mechanic do it for me. It was very reasonable, about $65 including filter, a few quarts of 7176 fluid, and adjust both bands.

Now that he has purchased a 'machine', the cost has gone up to $208. Ill have to ruminate on this.

It's a good revenue generator...but it certainly is not "bogus". My air tools are all "revenue" generators...I suppose you think they are "bogus"? Our hoists for lifting cars up are "revenue generators"......I suppose you'd like me to be jacking the cars up and working on a creeper like I did in the 80's? Unfortunately, so many people in these newsgroups are totally out of touch with what it takes to maintain and repair cars these days.

People on this newsgroup that claim that it is bogus invariably have never used one, don't understand how they work, and probably have never even seen one.

Trust me, from someone who uses one everyday...they work well for what they are intended to do. You often hear people on here tell us all about how they removed a transmission cooler line, started the vehicle, allowed the fluid to drain out into a bucket, once they have drained out a few liters, they top up the trans, and continue doing it until the fluid has been "exchanged". These people are lauded as minor heroes for having figured out a way to exchange their trans fluid.

This is exactly how our machine works, except it's all automatic. I use it on my own cars, so does everyone in the shop.

Our machine happens to be a "GM recommended" machine. So it appears that they are quite comfortable with the machine. The same company that makes the trans flushing machine also makes the "required" transmission cooler flushing machine that GM makes all the dealerships buy.

Ian

Ian

I had to laugh. 30 years ago I read a funny piece that defined a "rip-off" as anything you paid money for.

A lot of the folks on this newsgroup are quick to volunteer advice on subjects about which they are completely ignorant, and most of those same folks are quick to label anybody who knows what they're doing and charges for repairing a vehicle, especially a dealer (dirty word!), a thief. In their eyes, the real problem is that you get PAID (another dirty word) to fix their cars.

The world's not getting any smarter, and some stuff just never changes.

Sounds like you know about this process. Would you please address my concern about filter damage and not removing sludge from the pan and pan magnet? Am I right in understanding that it back flushes, that is it reverses the normal flow direction in the transmission? How much new fluid does it use to flush?

Thanks

A transmission fluid flush (I think that it's more accurate to describe it as a "fluid exchange") machine does just that....exchanges the fluid. This does not mean that it is a replacement for the tried and true transmission "service". In our shop, we incorporate both procedures into the overall maintenance schedule of a vehicle. The transmission service...ie: where you drop the pan and replace the filter is an extremely important service. If I had a choice of doing only one of the procedures on my own vehicles...I would definitely choose the service over the flush.

As far as how the machines work, I can't talk about any other machines other then the one we use....as I'm not familiar with them. Our machine is simple, you have two lines that you hook up to a transmission cooler line "in series". It doesn't matter which line hooks up to which cooler line as the machine autosenses the line pressure. The machine maintains the line pressure that the transmission would normally have through the cooler line and simply dumps the old fluid coming from the transmission and feeds new fluid through the other line into the transmission at the same flow rate and pressure. There is "no" reverse flushing going on. This would make no sense when working with an automatic transmission. You "reverse" flush a heater core....not an automatic. And there are good reasons why you would reverse flush a heater core, but that's another subject.

As far as the amount of fluid used, we normally run about

12 liters through the average car/truck transmission. This is a bit more then the total capacity, so that you are sure you are getting pretty much all of the fluid out. If I get one that the fluid is black....I'll run enough fluid thru to make sure I'm getting nothing but fresh clean fluid out of the machine. We do not leave any old burnt fluid in the machine. The machine also has internal fluid filters of it's own inside the machine.

On the Allison truck transmissions, we have to run approx 30 liters of fluid through the machine to get it completely clean. Big transmission!

Ian

I saw your house yesterday while driving past it on the bus, and you need your plumbing and electrical system replaced. Both are in real bad shape and will fail soon.

This is another example of BULLSHIT.

One of two things..... (or both) THEY WANT YOUR MONEY THEY DONT WANT TO DO THE JOB

As long as the transmission is working properly, it's NOT toast.

However, is there a reason you took it to the shop, or is it just regular maintenance? You never said the reason.....

I'd get a second and maybe even 3rd opinion. Get a recommendation from a friend for a mechanic. Using the yellow pages is not always the best. This place might be short on work and just figured you were an idiot and would fall for their scam. Who knows if they will even rebuild it, or just change the fluid and clean the exterior of it for BIG DOLLARS.

Why not just change the fluid and filter yourself? It's not really that hard to do. I did it last fall on my 89 Chevy. It costed me about $12 for the filter and gasket, and another $12 for 5 qts of fluid. Plus a little silicone gasket adhesive. Total cost about $25 and 2 hours of work. One thing, I do is be sure the pan is clean. I scrubbed it with dish soap, then hosed it out with water. Of course use a rag to dry and be sure it's completely dry. I also greased the linkage at the same time.

As for your question about the cost, why even bother asking a question like that on a newsgroup. What costs $1000 in California may only cost $300 in Ohio and in the UK, who knows how many pounds it costs. Asking prices on the newsgroup is assenine. Call local transmission shops and get estimates. One other thing, you can often buy a rebuilt trans at a parts store, far cheaper than getting yours rebuilt. Of course you have to find someone to replace it for you.