Wake-up call

I tried and tried to be Mr. America and stick with American made cars (is there such a thing) since I started driving 21 yrs ago and I finally had enough. I drove Ford's most of my life and have had some problems but my
last two cars have been Chevy and to put it bluntly Chevy quality sucks. I read on the GM newsgroups a couple weeks ago about the DEX-COOL problem they have been having with the 3.4 and 3.1's and how it is eating away at the engine and how the DEX-COOL turns to mud inside your engine. Well I ran outside and checked my radiator...guess what, MUD!!!!!!! So I had it flushed at the local Firestone and 4 days later I am cruising down the freeway and smoke starts pouring out of every vent inside my car. What kills me is that there is a class action law suit against GM for this problem and GM has the nerve to say it is the consumers fault for not maintaining the coolant, but if you read in the manual it says "the coolant is designed to last 5 years or 150,000 miles and NO MAINTENANCE IS REQUIRED during this time frame." Before this all happened the car has been in the shop 4 times for electrical problems which they couldn't find until the problem happened in the mechanics stall..the trunk opened up, the lights came on, etc. I guess if nothing registers on the little handy device they plug underneath the dash then they can't fix it. So at 40K miles I traded it in and took a loss and now I am the proud owner of a foreign made car. I also have a 2003 2500HD 4x4 pick-up. I was all excited the day I bought my truck that I found the Chevy news group and right off the bat I am reading about 4x4 switches that are bad and the infamous "piston slap" problem that GM also says is normal?!?!?!?. So now I have that to worry about. Keep in mind my oil gets changed every 3K miles and all the maintenance is performed at the interval's specified. I tried to be patriotic but I am not a millionaire and can't afford to buy a car and then spend thousands to fix it. I have bought my last American made car.
Disgruntled in Detroit
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Well, Mr. America, I'm right there with you...30+ years buying cars for me. The last 15 years buying Chrysler products with great satisfaction. I bought GM in November 2002 in a effort to stay "American" since Chrysler is now owned by Daimler (German). Big mistake!!! I just dumped a 2003 Malibu this week at 4,600 miles primarily due to idiotic consumer unfriendly policy stances GM has forced on the customer...many of them contrary to competitive industry standard practices to boot! I took a $6K to $7K hit, but that's the cost of education I suppose. Not sure how GM plans to win back the business things like this looses for them, but they need to figure it out.
I'm glad you shared your story..I hope GM is listening! All the things you mention...the DEX-COOL "mud" problem, piston slap, incorrect owner instructions (e.g. "no maintenance required" when that isn't really true), seemingly pervasive serious problems with gaskets, electrical, etc. etc. are all fixable. Some easily so, others will require more effort. Let's hope they get on it soon. We're down to two car companies (from four in the 70's) Can the US afford to keep loosing the world auto market share?...I don't think so. You and I are trying to do our part...but it seems to be a one-way street, doesn't it?! :-(
| I tried and tried to be Mr. America and stick with American made cars (is | there such a thing) since I started driving 21 yrs ago and I finally had | enough. I drove Ford's most of my life and have had some problems but my | last two cars have been Chevy and to put it bluntly Chevy quality sucks. I | read on the GM newsgroups a couple weeks ago about the DEX-COOL problem they | have been having with the 3.4 and 3.1's and how it is eating away at the | engine and how the DEX-COOL turns to mud inside your engine. Well I ran | outside and checked my radiator...guess what, MUD!!!!!!! So I had it flushed | at the local Firestone and 4 days later I am cruising down the freeway and | smoke starts pouring out of every vent inside my car. What kills me is that | there is a class action law suit against GM for this problem and GM has the | nerve to say it is the consumers fault for not maintaining the coolant, but | if you read in the manual it says "the coolant is designed to last 5 years | or 150,000 miles and NO MAINTENANCE IS REQUIRED during this time frame." | Before this all happened the car has been in the shop 4 times for electrical | problems which they couldn't find until the problem happened in the | mechanics stall..the trunk opened up, the lights came on, etc. I guess if | nothing registers on the little handy device they plug underneath the dash | then they can't fix it. So at 40K miles I traded it in and took a loss and | now I am the proud owner of a foreign made car. I also have a 2003 2500HD | 4x4 pick-up. I was all excited the day I bought my truck that I found the | Chevy news group and right off the bat I am reading about 4x4 switches that | are bad and the infamous "piston slap" problem that GM also says is | normal?!?!?!?. So now I have that to worry about. Keep in mind my oil gets | changed every 3K miles and all the maintenance is performed at the | interval's specified. I tried to be patriotic but I am not a millionaire and | can't afford to buy a car and then spend thousands to fix it. I have bought | my last American made car. | | Disgruntled in Detroit | |
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At first, I felt a little guilty when I traded my Grand Am for a Toyota Corolla, my first non-GM cars in 25 years. But you know what, the Corolla was assembled in California with US labor and with better than 75% US content. In that regard, you can't really consider it a foreign car. And in the bigger scheme, what little profit Toyota makes eventually finds itself back in the US in the form of foreign investments anyhow. And that is a hell of a lot better than a US company which profits only go to enrich its greedy executives.

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You are correct the Corolla is made in the only unionized Japanese assembly plant and one of the few that is built of mostly American made parts. Not all Corollas sold in the US are made in that plant, however. Unlike American owed corporations that pay dividends to their stock holders, one can not own stock in a Japanese corporation, unless they live in Japan. Japanese corporation not only take their huge profits out of the US they do so tax free, and Americans like you and me make up the difference so you CAN feel a little guilty. ;)
mike hunt
DL wrote:

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Not to be a smart ass, but isn't the Corolla assembled in Canada in it's Cambridge plant?
It's not American, it's not Japanese....it's Canadian! 8)
Cheers, Animal56

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The Canada plant assembles the Corolla, the Matrix, and the Lexus RX 300 (which is just going into production this fall). According to the website, this is the first Lexus plant outside Japan.
Not that all of this really matters... 8)
Cheers, Animal56

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You cannot own the stock outright, but you can own the ADR. So buy a Toyota and then buy the ADR listed on the NYSE (Symbol TM). Current price is $55.30 (dividend yield=0.9%, P/E.1).
... compare to GM at $38.55 (dividend yield=5.26% !!!!, P/E=8.2), it is clear to see from the P/E which company is more highly valued.
In reality, since we run such a large trade deficit with Japan. In order to keep the Yen low, Japan has no choice but to invest the profit back into US bond and stocks anyway.

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Japanese corp's also pay huge amounts of taxes in America.. (which go to benefit the Iraqi's)
On Wed, 20 Aug 2003 01:54:04 GMT, snipped-for-privacy@lycos.com wrote:

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Designed by foreigners whose company's profits benefit Japan...

Not all of it. Some of it does, but some of it goes to other countries where Toyota does business.
BTW, are you implying that GM's profits aren't used to build new plants in the US?

Do you say this out of greed or envy? ;-)
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What makes you think foreign cars don't have problems? Do a search of Toyota oil sludge, Honda trannys, Mitsu oil seals etc. All manufactures make cars that are good and some that are bad. At least if one gets a bad domestic he can take comfort in knowing he didn't pay a fortune to get it. LOL
mike hunt
CADDman wrote:

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You can 'accept' whatever you choose but the fact is Toyota has 'accepted' responsibility for the problem. You may think it only involved a 'few. engines but Toyotas was having so many complaints about sludge, (they refer to it as gelling,) even in vehicles that were serviced at dealerships that they extended the warranty for their customers to seven years unlimited mileage. You don't think Toyota, or any other manufacture, would replace engines for owners if they really thought it was because they neglected to change oil do you? Even Toyota gave up on the improper service defense of that engine and changed the design of the head last year. Just for your information, Japanese corporations can not be sued in the US courts, only in Japanese courts, so the shark lawyers can't get at their millions like they can US corporations.
mike hunt
Car Guy wrote:

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So..Toyota can't be sued here ? What about Toyota Motorsales U.S.A.? What about Lexus ?...They're a Japanese company that just recently started being sold in Japan. If they sell cars here they have to have a headquarter here as a new branch, and thus they become an american corporation too.
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And what does this have to do with the use of Dex-Cool
BTW The two statements below are taken from the owners manual from a Malibu and nowhere in the book does it say NOT to maintain the cooling system for 5 years or 150,000 miles
Also notice the "IF YOU ADD ONLY DEX-COOL extended life coolant"
"The cooling system in your vehicle is filled with DEX-COOL engine coolant. This coolant is designed to remain in your vehicle for 5 years or 150,000 miles (240 000 km), whichever occurs first, if you add only DEX-COOL extended life coolant."
Notice "Using coolant other than DEX-COOL may cause premature engine, heater core or radiator corrosion. In addition, the engine coolant may require changing sooner, at 30,000 miles (50 000 km) or 24 months, whichever occurs first. Any repairs would not be covered by your warranty. Always use DEX-COOL (silicate-free) coolant in your vehicle."
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I just had the entire coolant system flushed in my sunfire last year after I had to replace one of the hoses that had been cut by the battery tray on a trip to california, after putting cali water in there and adding more dex-cool, I was glad to have it all flushed out and then purified water and new dex cool put in. I think I was at 36000 miles at that point.
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Why should you have to add any at all in say the 1st two years or 24,000 miles? Oh that's right, when your lower intake manifold gasket is leaking!
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They are not corporations, merely holding companies of a Japanese corporation.
mike hunt
Phillip Schemed wrote:

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On Tue, 19 Aug 2003 18:11:43 -0400, "CADDman"

Just what are you trolling for? Don't buy American. There are plenty of cars out there!
Vuarra
Quid quid latine dictum sit altum videtur. (That which is said in Latin sounds profound.)
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