What does GM have to go toe to toe with this??

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Micah wrote:


I agree with you - this is why I drive an old Porsche :)
nate
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I disagree. Everyone I know who own GM products like them. Deciding what is "crappy" or "poorly-designed" is up to the owner. I could list several Toyota's I think are shit, and I could do the same for GM. However, like I said, the #1 plant in North America is the Oshawa GM plant. That should tell you a little bit about the quality. As for overpriced, where I live, it is much cheaper to buy a GM then some foreign crap.

I respectfully disagree. If you don't like GM, that's fine with me, but IMHO, they build quality vehicles. They also keep everyone with 200 kilometers of me in house and home.
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80 Knight wrote:

I don't have time to list all the ergonomic and other design flaws in my company car (although I've taken stabs at it here in the past.)
It's also noticeably "looser" and noisier at appx. 40K miles than it was when new. I suspect it will need major front end work before I turn it in at 70K miles, and I don't know how long the A/C compressor will last as it's been steadily getting noisier.
nate
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<Snip>
That's one thing that I have wondered about your Impala since you first mentioned it. Did you just get a lemon? We make those Impala's down here, and as I said before, the plant in which they are made get's top ratings for quality. We also use the Impala's as Police cruisers, with no complaints that I have heard of. It's also quite the popular car here (due to it being built in-town). I see them everyday, all over the place. I have 2 relatives who own one, but I have only driven one myself once. I test-drove it, as I was looking to replace an older Bonnie. It was a base-model, with the 3400, and the front bench. I found it quite comfortable to drive. I didn't find it noisy, and it felt like a solid car. The only thing I can recall that I didn't like was its seemed like it's ass-end was high up in the air, and I found that distracting when backing up. But, I decided not to buy it when I found my Bonnie SSEi.
Anyhow, like I said before, I don't mean any offence to you, I just have never heard as many problems with an Impala as you have with yours.
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What did you expect from your old Porsche?
mike

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They also sell millions more in the US than any import. There must be a lot of Americans that agree with you personal opinion. ;)
mike

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I own a 2002 BUICK Century. It's a superb road car. Form, fit, and finish are perfect.
So what did GM do when they finally "got it right" ? THEY STOPPED MAKING THAT MODEL ! ????
<rj>
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Now, *that* I can agree with. I have owned (including my current one) 4 Bonneville's, and loved all of them. I was pissed off big time when GM stopped making them.
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How many miles?
I loved my 2001 LeSabre when I first got it, but after a couple of years it started to fall apart. No help from the skimpy warranty either, especially after putting on 25k a year you don't get any time for even non-moving parts. I have windows propped closed with sticks of wood, I have switches jammed in the on position with toothpicks, I have some rather expensive repair bills for transmissions and wheel bearings.
This is the stuff I'd have expected from a Yugo, or a car from the 1940's, not a new model with some otherwise good engineering. Buick did not earn my loyalty on this one, they just pissed me off. I was a GM fan for many years until I got this car. Yes, I contacted Buick. They suggested I guy a new car.
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wrote in message

Did you and Nate get you're cars from the same place? :-P
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We may have. I really should be driving a Lucerne. That was my plan until the LeSabre just pushed me over the line and took away may down payment in repairs. Did I do the right thing buying a different band? I honestly won't know for a couple more years. Meantime, I've driven it 9,000 flawless miles, but I'd expect that from any new car.
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wrote in message

Let us know how it goes with your Hyundai.
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You know I'm pretty much a died in the wool GM guy, but I too stepped out and bought a Hyundai, not so long ago. I bought my wife a 2004 Sonata. I was frustrated with some of the long standing, recurring issues with GM's. Not enough to completely turn me away, because a few months later I bought myself a Grand Am, but certainly enough to step outside of the GM product line.
My wife's car is coming on 60,000 miles and I have not repaired a thing except for replacing the headlight bulbs. It's almost too bad too, because the car has such a good warranty you almost want to use it... I will have to replace the timing belt very soon, as it's a 6 cylinder interference engine and the recommended interval is 60K. That's the nature of interference engines and timing belts though. Edwin won't have to worry about that in his car because his has a chain instead of a belt.
The ride, the fit and finish and the performance of this car are marvelous. It's very Buick-esq inside and it still rolls down the road as smooth as any GM I've ever owned. It rivals the rolling smoothness of our old '92 Park Ave Ultra, though not the complete plushness of that car. It's also stiffer over bumps than the Ultra, but not objectionably so. Still no rattles or shakes. No rust, and we're in upstate NY - lots of road salt here. The 2.7L V-6 is pure snot as long as you keep it in the torque band. Don't let it languish coming off the line or it acts like a 4 cylinder with a hang over. You don't have to floor it, but you don't want to creep off the line and then expect pull in second gear. It is after all, a 2.7L engine. OHC on top of that.
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It's different for me. I have been born and raised GM. Most of my family works for the local GM (Oshawa, Canada) plant. When I go car hunting, I go to GM places first, and I haven't really ever considered a foreign car. Besides that, I don't really care for the look of them either. The Mazda 6 (if memory serves) is an exception. I do like the look of it, but, like I said, its all Gm for me.

In my days of owning cars, I have had around 11. A few 3.1's, a 3400, two 3800 series I's, one Series II and my current 3800 Series II supercharged. Oh, and the 305 in my old '82 Trans Am that I had back in 2000. I have to say, my current car is my favorite. The supercharged engine puts out tons of power, and get's great gas mileage for such a powerful engine. The ride at the moment is not so good, as the front electronic shocks are on there way out, but it will take a corner at any speed I want, and goes over bumps in the road with no harshness. That, and it's almost 11 years old.
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I realy agree with nate in a certin aspect...what happened to the excitement you used to be able to get cavalier wagons in sticks! Now you cant even get a performance version of the impala in a stick. Thats exactly why enthusists went to other places for diffrent options for cars. No manual transmission...no business from me either.
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Spinning a lighter engine at higher RPM to make it's power only when needed is an engineering decision. Lighter engine means the whole vehicle can be lighter giving better performance and handling. Losing some torque and having to adjust driving style to increase efficiency isn't unreasonable. I'd prefer a Huyabusa to a Harley anytime. Sorry, not that into auto engines anymore. Torque has real world advantages but HP is still HP. Might just be the mindset of someone who'd buy a Camry. How many sportbikes do you pass going up a hill. They have really small engines.

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Albeit running at 10 RPMs or more ;)
Running a too small 4 cy at 3,500 RPM, a point past is top torque rating, to maintain 65 MPH is not efficient. Running a larger engine at 2,000, well below its top torque rating, to maintain 65 MPH in top gear is much more efficient. More importantly, having 2,000 RPM of torque left, if one needs to get out of the way of something, is much better position to find one self..
mike

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Geez, you just like proving yourself a complete moron, don't you. Why don't you take your drivel to alt.self-important.blowhards.bullshit.bullshit.bullshit - I can't even bother to argue with your post below because it doesn't even make enough sense that I can figure out what the fuck you were trying to say.
In any case, I can tell you that high RPMs and high efficiencies are not mutually exclusive - I've logged many miles at >3000 RPMs in some of my old VWs and still got consistent 30 MPG tankfuls.
nate
Mike Hunter wrote:

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You point is? It is easy to see why you do not understand that post. You obviously do not have a grasp of the subject on which you are trying to comment. I. E. A car with 300 HP at 5,700 RPM and 340 FPT at 4,500 RPMs, will get 26 MPG going 60 MPH at only 1,500 RPMs. A car with a smaller engine with 220 HP at 5,700 RPM and 240 FPT at 3,500 RPMs, will get 26 MPG going 60 MPH at 3,200 RPMs. Which one do you thank will climb a steep grade in top gear? What would happen to the fuel mileage in your car if you drove down a gear or two half of the time? If you don't understand the difference, I'm wasting my time trying to enlighten you it would seem. . ;)
mike

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It's not I that doesn't understand, you haven't a clue what you're talking about (as usual, should be no surprise to regular readers of this newsgroup.) An engine will be most efficient at the speed at which it was designed to be most efficient, period. Stating anything beyond that is a gross generalization and likely to be false at least half the time.
In any case, the generalizations you make in your post below have no basis in fact.
nate
Mike Hunter wrote:

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