What if.....

I think this is the main point of your post.

They DO know how to buid a reliable car. Employee salaries and benefits and keeping stockholders happy have forced the North American car manufacturers to lower a lot of things, including quality. Another thing, friend of mine used to be a Ford dealer. At a meeting, Ford offered to make available to them a car that could go 20 years trouble free. They said NO!!! Profits are more important than anything else.

I know it is but my friend was a the meeting and reported exactly what was discussed.

It was repeated by other people and probably became a legend or an urban myth in some ways many other story. I see your point. My friend assured me it was true. He told me the story about 15 years ago and was very serious when telling it. He was a Ford dealer and went to a Ford dealer meeting. The Ford brass did indeed proposed to build a car that could last 20 years. They all said NO! Glen has passed away a couple of years ago so, I can't ask him for the details.

I doubt that will happen. I suspect that, at worst, GM will declare bankruptcy, cancel the contracts, make all the stocks worthless, and reorganize under protection.

To declare bankrupt you don't have to be dead, just on the point of dying.

Daimler Benz, of course, acquired Chrysler, so the concept is possible.

I have been in sales meetings, by the way, where executives made the kind of statement another poster has quoted. "If we gave you a car that would last for 20 years, troublefree, would you be happy" This might have been similar to what happened in the Ford story. In fact they can't do this, or at least never intend to do it. When you are trying to get a sales organization to improve its market share, the salesmen always say "We could, if you could give us this, or that, or the other". It is a common CYA situation. The worst thing you can do to a salesman, sometimes, is give him what he asks for. Then his excuse is ruptured.

It can be really hard to figure out how to design a product, and the marketing technique, which will take a large share of the business from a competitor. Books have been written on it. Some companies have wasted millions or even billions on fool's schemes.

GM has had it share of fools in management.

toycars wrote, "I think Toyota could teach those guys [GM] a thing or two about building reliable cars." ************************************* I submit that if you made the above statement to the average person on the street--in other words, outside of this discussion room--they wouldn't know what you were talking about. GM cars aren't generally regarded as being unreliable by the population at large. If someone didn't know what a GM car was, and began reading about them in this group, they would think they're absolute junk, which is far from true. The main problem with GM, as I see it, is they're saddled down with so much expenditure from health care and pensions. I sure as hell wouldn't have any problem with buying a GM car.

I'd take the money with a totally clear conscience.

My "average Joe" Toyotas have been great, including my 300,000 mile

Thanks for the lead-in...

And these NewsGroups have had their share of fools like you. ;-) Yet . . . you're still here!!!??? And the tripe continues to spew from your mind. Sad really.

Don't forget that the shiny side of the foil goes out when making the hat.

Or is that in?

I think it depends on whether you're an introvert or an extrovert.

Let me put a twist on this. With GM selling their majority interest in GMAC, they will have over 20 BILLION in cash. Now, just applying a little Economic 101, what does business due when the market is full and has a lot of cash? Start buying. So, lets just say GM takes those dollars and buys a controlling interest in Toyota or Hunda.

Now, they have a power house to combine Toyota and GM dealers together to either up or down sell to Joe off the street. The question then becomes, does GM need a Pontiac, GMC, Buick or Saturn? Yes, one can picture all four brands going away (I am a die in the wool converted Pontiac Trans Am man for over 30 years so it pains me to think about it).

GM would expand the line of Toyota trucks, SUVs and more smaller line of cars.

My two cents.

Highly unlikely scenario. GM doesn't have the capability to even attempt to buy Toyota, let alone actually do it. GM is rotting from the inside out and will probably be in bankruptcy by years end and certainly by the contract talks in '07. I just do not believe that GM has the vision, intelligence and will to really change their mindset that builds cars that the public doesn't care to buy-that is one reason their market share keeps declining. The fleet sales hide just how bad GM's decline is because they hide an even bigger decline in "regular" sales. Then there are the many, many ticked off ex-GM owners that have been badly burned by poor customer service and poor engineering. We have very, very long memories of how we were screwed by GM and its payback time. GM is going down.