Where is the stimlulus mony going?

I don't see many signs.

Reply to
Canuck57
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2010 isn't that far off.

Agreed. That is why senators and congressmen are now back peddling on the bailouts, trying to put distance from their actions getting ready for 2010.

Hopefully the bailout-corruption supporters in these governemnt houses get slaghtered at the polls in 2010. Would be a nice assertion of democracy and a real turn around. But as you say, peoples memories are short.

Reply to
Canuck57

Ok, being fussy.

Polls are for voting.

Poles up the arse is what taxpayers got with GM.

Reply to
Canuck57

Spewing GM BS again. Japanese do pay income tax in NA. GM hasn't paid income tax in a long time, and Chrylser is still in arrears to the tune of $500M to the Canadian government and not only doesn't pay taxes currently, is in arrears.

No argument BO is a screw up, just wasting taxpayers money at every turn for debt-corruption-spend economics.

Bailouts, kickbacks, money for auto, just a cespool of corruption from the senate, congress and BO.

Reply to
Canuck57

So? People want foreign. Some buy foreign for the price/value, others buy it as they don't want to support GM bailout corruption.

To not give the CARS to any auto would break US anti-rust law. You can't favor one, and not do the other, good law too. Trouble is it is hampering the corruption of America as I am sure BO would like people to buy Government Motors. But to do so makes him like Chavez or Castro, where the state knows best.

Reply to
Canuck57

You can ASSume what you want. From your comments, facts are not that important to you.

However, you have yet to show that $2.2B is being sent offshore, especially considering that four of the top 10 vehicles bought with the stimulus money are Fords.

Jeff

Reply to
Canuck57

At least 90% of Bush's stimulus money went to Europe, China and other countries to pay off the losses caused by the sub-prime loan debacle. If we hadn't done so the rest of the world was about to ban buying American financial instruments. THEN we would have seen a deep depression.

------- That part is right. The liquity shortage is 100% due to the fact that the risk in US debt markets is much higher than the rewards. Governments can set the interest rate to whatever they want, but if it does not have the return to cover inflation and risk, no one in their right mind is going to lend to you.

And much of the USA has a real credit rating of sub-zero. Bet GM couldn't borrow much right now. And if they did, the terms would be quite a bit different than GM (old) got.

In fact, if I were to loan GM money today, I would demand that assets, hard assets like plants be signed over to a holding company and leased back for the cash. This way they can't screw lenders like last time as the lender owns the property. I do predict GM will need more cash, as the $20B more they got isn't going to last long.

And now, GM is quickly becoming a political turkey with 2010 on the horizon, and the total costs to taxpayers hitting home with government tax increase talk. GM futires are far from assured.

Reply to
Canuck57

Carter was a statist. But loved money creation, same traights as Obama.

Reply to
Canuck57

Quite true. While they don't have mega-aircraft carriers, they have some nice nuke subs and tons of people in the army.

Reply to
Canuck57

Perhaps in raw dollars, but China is growing much faster. They are quite a capable armed forces.

Reply to
Canuck57

I'm telling you guys, that money went to bail out risky bets that went bad, there were people and companies bailed out that should have been allowed to fail, it would have been painful but the excess speculation that drive these bubbles would have stopped. All we have done is set ourselves up for the next big bubble (the mother of all bubbles) which are treasury notes, T-bills, and T-bonds. When those get into trouble the only ones that will be able to bail us out will be Brasil, Russia, India, and China known as BRIC You guys are wasting time and energy arguing politics while the fuse to the powder keg is burning...... A suggestion, all of you might want to spend more time reacting to what is, and not so much time and energy bitching about what was, what could have been, and what should be. And today in the NYT

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and BRIC
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Reply to
FatMoe

Why, that can't be, can it? Do you mean the bailouts of GSachs, Citigroup, WFC, BA didn't work? Trillions of debt, after interest is added, paid for by those who actually work weren't sufficient? Mortgaging the future of the next three generations just didn't do the trick?

Say it isn't so.

By the way, let's just ignore those pitiful little inconveniences and add another $1 trillion to our debt via health care.

And all the while, a certain group of bankers laughs all the way to their hidden accounts.

Reply to
Conscience

Are you sure you're Canadian?

Must be a Tory...

Reply to
Hachiroku

I meant revolting, as in "That's REVOLTING!"

Reply to
Hachiroku

Good part about the "stimulus" corruption, is in time the scandle will leak out and in time become what it really is. Statism gone wrong.

Reply to
Canuck57

We had two choices. Two to three years of really severe pain, or fifteen to twenty of moderately severe pain.

We chose the latter.

Reply to
Conscience

And that's just what the current crop of 'leaders' wants.

Seems to me we were doig fiarly well without them, when WE were the manufacturing power of the world, when we were the financial leader of the world, and we did it all without government telling us how to do it.

Ever since more and more government regulations have been put in place 'for our own good', America has lost it's grip as an economic power.

Personally, I prefer Japanese goods and cars, but there's no reason we can't lead in other fields.

Let me give you an example: I work for Dell as a Field Service tech. On a Latitude D620 or 630, once I get the thing open and replace the errant part, it takes me 15 minutes to assemble the parts back into a functioning unit.

Let's say the average American makes $16 and hour. Once all the various sub-assemblies are collected, that's $4 to assemble a functioning unit.

If a Chinese worker makes $2, that's $0.50. OK, it's $3.50 less manufacturing cost to have it made in China. Overall, the difference would be about $30 per unit. Of course, we're ignoring shipping costs here.

I'll pay the extra $30. When you're talking a difference of $1750 and $1780, it's worth the $30 to have it say, "Made in USA".

When you figure in shipping costs, it's probably only a $25 difference.

Reply to
Hachiroku

How would someone in Montana, Navada, California, or 45 or so states and 8 provinces hurt if GM & Chrysler went belly up?

I would say that 20 years of auto industry corruption and screw ups doesn't belong on the rest of the economy to support. Just makes everyone else less competative and burdened with more debt for corruption. If say home construction was down, would GMers like to cough up $3000/year to help them out? Bet they would whine like stuck pigs.

The sever pain would only be localized in the area of the cancer. But now it has spread.

Reply to
Canuck57

Quite true. How many people know that during the largest growth period of the USA (and Canada) that there was no government income taxes? With a low burden from government, banks and corporations on the dole, the economy thrived quite well which attracted people from all over the world.

And efficiencies. If your utility bill, mostly taxes, is larger than what someone in India makes, you can't compete. Part of NA's competative problem is statism, and it's associated costs. Including such counter productive bailouts and crap.

It isn't just about the hourly rate. Chinese often automate at their wage levels to get quality and speed of assembly up. Nothing is sacred to cost cutting and efficiencies. And I mean nothing, they even look at returns and defects weeding out waste ruthelessly. That attitude alone is a great competative advantage. Some clown that gets peanut butter on the parts is going to be sent packing, no union rant, no BS, gone RFN. Of it something is wrong, management doesn't have to contend with policially correct appeasement and grand standing bullshit found in NA organizations.

The reasons China makes the Dell PCs parts is a lot more than just $10 of workers wages per unit. It goes to taxation as well. All costs of corporate, personal, civic, provincial and wages considered, they just are better. Take CEO's, in NA it is $12M but in China, it is a whole lot less. China would look at that as an army of productive workers and quickly fire such extravigances.

There are a lot of reasons why China and India are waxing our arses. NA Government deflection, debt, mass denial, just make it worse.

And it isn't going to change until one of two things happen. North America might wake up in a decade or two, or three, but don't count on it soon. The other event is that China grows affluent, fat, lazy and as corrupt as we are. But I suspect we will not live that long to see it.

Reply to
Canuck57

Perfect.

Reply to
Conscience

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