Why are all these people knocking GM ?????????

I agree. it was ugly, IMO. In 2006 there was a major re-style. This is a very different car. I laughed a Hyundai not more than a few months ago, but the new ones are a very different automobile.

No offence taken.

Reply to
Edwin Pawlowski
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I know quite a few people who have Hyundais, and only two have had bad experiences with them. One was one of the really early Excels, and the other was a 1st-gen Tiburon which was bought used and cheap. The owner of the Tiburon actually likes the car, but it apparently was run into the ground by the previous owner and it's drinking oil. The rest of the Hyundai owners universally love their cars, including one that was a long time VW owner. She claims that the quality appears to be nearly on par with her old VW and at about 2/3 the price, who can argue with that. Even the interior styling is fairly attractive, I must say (it's a newer one, whatever the large-ish hatchback model is.) The gauge panel is a near-ripoff of the A4 VW design, which is not entirely a bad thing. One guy I know who wrecked his first Hyundai promptly turned around and bought a brand new one without blinking, and is happy with that one as well.

I don't hesitate to recommend Hyundai to anyone, unless they are like me and value performance and handling above ultimate reliability and price. Me, I just buy well-used VWs or sports cars and deal with the inevitable maintenance issues as part of the price of admission. (for now - the Porsche is going in the shop soon, it might be time for a replacement if they can't get rid of the mystery vibration)

nate

Reply to
Nate Nagel

It would be nice if the american cars would catch up, this would of course help our ecomony out quit a bit.

I guess you didn't really catch my drift when I started this, I love American cars because they always need major work. Job stability.

Anyway, this is getting boring.

Timmy Thomps> >

Reply to
james.renn

I guess it is only where you live and where you supposely checked it.

Humm, Toyota and Honda is top seller in these here parts.

80 Knight wrote:
Reply to
james.renn

On Wed, 13 Dec 2006 19:42:24 -0500, Nate Nagel got out the hammer and chisel and etched in the wall:

Me either - my Kia Sedona (a Hyundai subsidiary) was a very reliable minivan.

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I drove it all over the place! Only problem was it was too small. Being a compact, didn't help. :P

Of course, I now have my nice midsize Avalanche

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/me very happy!

Reply to
PerfectReign

Rain, rain go away.

Don't you love working on cold, wet cars....Yipeeee !!!!

I hope everyone in this stupid discussion has a great Christmas and a happy New year.

James

PerfectReign wrote:

Reply to
james.renn

But you have to admit a lot of people support Japanese simply because of pure hype and that "there ice is colder" mentality. I also know from experience from 2 family members who have owned a Toyota and the other had

2 Mazdas and can say that the mazdas flat out did not hold up well in mechanics or ride quality and the Toyota just always had lingering problems. And I am driving a 97 Pontiac that has only given me 1 problem which is the Intake gasket failure, other than regular maintenance this car has performed great up to today with 133k miles.
Reply to
Hickabob McCrane

There may be some people who believe that Japanese is best, as some used to believe that German engineering and quality was superior...(maybe it was, at one time).

The statistics that are published seem to show that certain models of Honda and Toyota are significantly less likely to have failures than the norm. I am sure they have their problems too.

The Japanese have a pretty good reputation for repairing their errors with no hassel from dealerships or corporate. True or not, I do not know.

My complaint with GM had to do with older short warranties (36000 miles) and failure to address key issues in quality that GM KNEW were their fault. The plastic plenum is only one of them. (Volkswagen has the same shitty reputation)

GM has made some progress on warranties, and we can hope that they will listen to what their clients want, and what we dont want, and will respond positively.

The problem has been squarely in GM's court... The Japanese didnt get a good reputation by behaving in this manner. Maybe this is an innovation of the Asians that GM can copy.

Reply to
hls

If one listened to the import buyer one might think all GM cars fall apart when the warranty expires.

I take my 1971 Pinto with 300K on the clock, (you know how bad they were,) to old car shows and it wins awards. Except a 'Z' car or an RX& on occasion, I have yet to see a Jap sedan from the seventies or even the eighties at one of those shows. Lot of British cars (you know how bad they were, German and even Italian sedans but never a Jap car from that time period. LOL

mike

Reply to
Mike Hunter

Mike, You are obviously a reasonably intelligent person. Therefore why do think just because no Japanese cars from the 70's are at the shows it is indicative of them being crap? And that because someone with more money than common sense will spend big bucks on the crappy Brit and Italian cars of that era makes them better? You are old enough to remember what lumps of crap those German and Brit cars were, just as you know that the Japanese cars of that time were not any better or worse than the European cars.

You are also smart enough to know that today the products produced by the Japanese companies receive much higher customer (real world) satisfaction ratings as reported by that left wing socialist magazine CR.

I truly wish that cars made by GM, Ford and the half Nazi company using the Chrysler name were better products. However they are what they are; more of a problem to their owners than Japanese cars.

Reply to
Double Tap

The Pinto was a POS from the word go but probably sold more copies in the US than all the Japanese makers put together in 1971. Not that their quality was that great either but getting an award for a Pinto is like gettng an award for having a dropped bomb that didn't explode. Sorry couldn't resist ..............but not kidding about the difference in numbers. Had a 66 Mustang that's still one of my favorite cars so not just bashing Ford.

During the 80's GM had 12month no rust through warranties. What more needs to be said about quality. If not for the Japanese you'd have to pick up Bondo on your way home from the dealership after buying new Detroit "iron".

Meanwhile, back to the future, the only 2 Japanese cars I have experience with is my father-in-laws Accord and a rental Mitsubishi Gallant. The Accord is a great car. The Gallant is a POS. My G Am is much closer to the Accord than the Gallant. Especially considering age differences. It certainly can't be said all Jap cars are better.

Reply to
T Shadow

I would say mostly true. I know a friend of mine had his butt kissed by Infiniti on a cheap used G20 back in the day (overrevved it because he missed a shift, got a free new head even after he told the dealership what he did.) I don't know if that is still true but stories like that are plentiful and contribute to the reputation of the Japanese as being overall more forgiving and pleasant to deal with.

Agreed!

Which is a shame because a lot of VW's problems are supplier problems not problems directly attributable to the engineering or build quality of their vehicles. They're really excellent, solid cars BUT handling of warranty claims by VWoA is... not so good. Don't get me started on the number that I personally have knowledge of... like the A4 window regulators, coil packs, and the A2 heater cores... had VW handled these issues better, they could have built themselves a nice reputation for standing behind their product, but their manner of handling these issues was totally out of character with the overall quality (and let's be honest, purchase price) of their vehicles.

Absolutely.

nate

Reply to
N8N

Mitsushitty is in a class by itself. The only thing they have going for them is the reputation of the other Japanese mfgrs. and the fact that they, too are Japanese.

nate

Reply to
N8N

In other words you believe the crappy cars from the US and Europe were good enough to still be around but the crappy cars form Japan were not?

You are smart enough to know that is only an opinion. My opinion is far different. I have owned many import brands from VW to Lexus they were no better or worse than any of the domestic I have owned. They cost me more, but that is the only difference I discovered. I now buy domestics. The fact is every manufacture today is building good stuff, even the Koreans. Apparently more Americans agree with my opinion than yours, since today they buy more vehicles from GM and Ford than any import. ;)

mike

Reply to
Mike Hunter

You can stop typing your boilerplate reply (or are you copying from a text document on your hard drive?) any time, "mike." Anyone with a lick of sense knows you're wrong. All you're proving is that you are incapable of evaluating quality.

nate

Reply to
N8N

That may be your opinion but what I do know for a fact, based on sales, more Americans prefer the quality of the current GM and Ford vehicles than the quality of any import brand,. Whether you agree or not is immaterial, you can spend your money wherever you wish. I know I do. Surely you do not expect to find only those that agree with your personal opinion in a GM NG. If that is what you want, try one of the Jap brand NGs, WBMA Try a Toyota NG, those guys would have others believe they never breakdown and if they do Toyota will fix them forever. LOL

. mike

Reply to
Mike Hunter

What makes you think I like Toyotas? I don't particularly, except maybe if someone offered me a twin-turbo Supra I'd be tempted. I am here because I *have* a GM car, although most of the content of this NG seems to be this constant back and forth that you perpetuate rather than real technical information.

Perhaps I should pose some questions:

1) What can I do to my Impala so the front end doesn't sound like it's going to fall apart? It's only got 35K miles but it sounds like my old VW did at about 150K miles when the front strut bearings commonly went. Is there a common failure point, or is the whole front end trash?

2) How can I reprogram my transmission so it does not constantly shift and lock/unlock the torque converter?

3) What can I do to temper the loud, blatty exhaust note? It's louder than my Porsche, not nearly as aesthetically pleasing, and frankly, embarassing.

4) Is there any way that I can get enough power out of the car so it isn't constantly downshifting on freeway upgrades?

5) Is there any way that I can retrofit a rear seat that folds down?

6) Is there any way that I can get enough range of adjustment on the tone of the stereo so it doesn't sound like some "boom-boom" system that a techno-loving riceboy installed?

7) I think my car has the wrong column shifter installed. It appears to be a GMC truck part and sticks out way past the steering wheel. Does anyone have the correct GM part number for a column shifter for an '05 Impala?

8) I'm missing my gauges. The car seems to have been built without any of the gauges except for a speedometer, temp gauge, and fuel gauge. If you see them, please let me know.

9) I assume the sound like a coffee can full of bolts being shaken when I engage the A/C is normal?

thanks,

nate

Reply to
N8N

Forgot some.

10) Is there any way to retrofit a proper parking brake? The "kick to release" pedal is useless (as you can't use it as a true emergency brake) and also traps the sole of my shoe under the kick panel, being so close to it. Also, it doesn't work anymore.

11) Is there any way to move the pedals and steering wheel farther towards the rear of the car? I'm only 6' tall but have a hard time folding my legs up enough to exit the car gracefully with the seat in a comfortable driving position.

12) is there any way to retrofit a proper door check strap? The doors are death traps and more than once I've ended up cursing the car because the door will swing closed on me while trying to contort myself out of the car (usually while holding a coffee mug.)

13) Any recommendations for tires that aren't ludicrously tractionless?

14) Exactly how many times do I need to push "unlock" on the remote before the doors actually unlock? Normal procedure seems to be hit button twice, attempt to pull door open, catch fingernail on door handle as hand slips out from underneath, curse, repeat several times, open door.

15) Is there any way to raise the car for more ground clearance? I physically cannot get the car into my driveway without severely scraping the underside. Which is odd, since my Porsche can be driven straight up into it.

I'm sure I will have more questions, but that's it for now, I think.

nate

Reply to
N8N

Lots of problems back then. Owned a Vega. Luckily my brother worked at the dealership. Just thought the rust through really typified their arrogance at selling crap that they thought people would just have to buy. Seemed to start in the late sixties but was just unbelievable in the late seventies and eighties. Soft cams good for 30K. The 350 diesel.

Ironically my step-father had an early 80's Olds(gasoline engine) he put

350K+ on, much of it pulling a 22ft trailer. Without any driveline problems. Finally gave up on it when the body could no longer be held together.
Reply to
T Shadow

The days when engineers and tech exchanged information in the NGs, are long gone. Today it is just guys looking for a free fix, or to bitch. You will get no help from me, take it to competent tech, WBMA. When I teach a school I get paid. ;)

mike

Reply to
Mike Hunter

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