Why are all these people knocking GM ?????????

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down
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GM galvanizes a lot of the metal.
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-Mike-
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Both companies used single and double sided galvanized steel in lower body components. The rust problem developed later in Fords, than GM vehicles, because GM used steel made by US Steel Co and Ford used steel made by Bethlehem Steel Co. BSCO switched to BOF steel several years after USS. The best steel used in cars today is the 'dentless sheet' steel made by the Mittal Steel Co, at the former BSCO Burns Harbor Michigan plant. Most of the steel used in Japanese cars, assembled in the US and Canada, is made by Nippon Steel Co and imported from Japan
mike

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Rusting cars of yore had little to do with how cars were treated or painted. The rust that started to appear in cars in the early seventies was a result for a new steel making process know as the Basic Oxygen Furnace. Pryor to the BOF, steel was produced in open-hearth furnaces. O-HF used fuel oil to melt the mix of iron and its amalgams in a tub like furnace. The BOF did not use a fuel but rqather the combustibles in the mix by burning them in a high oxygen atmosphere, blown through the mix via a stainless steel lance driven down into a ladle like electric furnace. After a time, as cars the used BOF steel began to rust, it became apparent the "blow" needed to be a few second longer to completely eliminate the impurities that remained in the steel. In other word the rust started within the steel, not from the outside. Current BOF steel is "cleaner" than O-HF steel.
It is an awesome experience to see the blow rod driven down into a 100 ton vat at several feet per second, as it is consumed with a deafening roar. ;)
http://www.energysolutionscenter.org/HeatTreat/MetalsAdvisor/iron_and_steel/process_descriptions/raw_metals_preparation/steelmaking/basic_oxygen_furnace/basic_oyxgen_furnace_processdescription.htm
mike

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Obviously you own an oil well. Many of us couldn't afford to drive a 10mpg car.
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I guess it is only where you live and where you supposely checked it.
Humm, Toyota and Honda is top seller in these here parts.
80 Knight wrote:

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That's wierd, because when I worked for Toyota, most of the major repairs where on the used cars that usually GMC, Chevy, Ford, Mazda..American vehicles and when I worked at Dodge and Chevy most of the major repairs was on Dodge and Chevy's. Don't figure....who knows.
I'm patriotic, but I don't like spending my free time working on my own cars, my friends and my families cars.
Who ever assembles the Toyotas or Hondas do a great job, because they are by far more reliable and dependable. Maybe there has been a SMALL decline in the workmanship of these vehicles, but not too much.
I have owned Ford, Chevy, Dodge, Mazda, VW, Honda and Toyota vehicles and out of all of these cars the Toyota and Honda vehicles needed less work and lasted the longest.
To each their own.
James
Jim Higgins wrote:

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If you want to talk about assembly quality, GM's Oshawa car plant has been ranked as the highest quality plant in North or South America, by J.D. Power & Associates. And that, is a fact. We won it last year as well.
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Good for you guys. Of the last three GM cars I've owned, only one had a minor assembly problem that was fixed easily by the dealer. Paint and fit of body parts has been greatly improved over anything in the past. GM has made big strides in assembly over the past 15 or 20 years.
What they still lack though, is some better designs on some models. Assembly though, is only of factor in making a quality car that sells well. When you sell millions of vehicles, pennies sure add up, but if they added $50 to the cost of a car, they could probably save the consumer thousands in repair bills. I should not have to hold the cruise control on by jamming the switch with a toothpick. I should not have to prop up the power windows with a stick of wood. I should not have to replace a $560 seat bottom to replace a $15 heating element. They make great car that lasts for 75,000 miles.
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wrote in message

Those are your own experences. I have owned 9 cars. 8 Pontiac's and 1 Oldsmobile. I loved each and every one of them. Sure, some had problems, but the ones that had the major problems were into the 300,000 KM's range. I just find it odd that some people say there Toyota will never break down. Give me a break. I don't care what you buy, it will break down on occasion.
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Of course, all cars can break down, and some are lemons....I dont believe anyone here said that a Toyota will never break down.
Some of us here have had LOTS of trouble with GM cars. And we are frankly not too happy about it.
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No, but some of you seem to think Toyota's are gifts from God.

I have had break down's as well, and I wasn't happy about it either. It happens. Cars break down. Computers break down. TV's break down. It is a fact of life. All my point is if you don't like GM, then that beg's the question, why are you here? If all you have to say about GM is bad, then what is the point?
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If all you have to say about GM is bad, then

We bought a ticket to be here by having supported GM cars for years.
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If all you have to

You don't get my meaning. Everyone has the 'right' to be in a newsgroup. What I am asking is why would you want to be in one, where all you do is bitch and moan? I, for example, don't like Honda's, but I don't go to the Honda newsgroup and bitch about how ugly there cars are. I also don't watch Survivor, and you won't find me there either. Like I said, everyone has the right to be in any group, but it is rather Trollish to only participate negatively.
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snipped-for-privacy@hotmail.com says...

Agreed, the constant bitching and moaning from these people is very annoying. This thread is also way over due for the grave.
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If all you have to

the
watch
the
I've voiced my opinion on this matter a couple of times, directly to the Death Watch Guard. I'm no believer in GM, right or wrong, but I've been a GM guy for decades. I'm very disappointed in some of the longstanding issues that GM has put us through, like the 60 degree gasket issues, and I believe GM has brought a great deal of their current distress upon themselves, but on the other hand I don't care to see the GM Is Dying, It Ain't Soon Enough threads. There's those who cross post their stuff and bring nothing to this group besides clutter, and I'd just as soon see them take their rants to some other group.
--

-Mike-
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80 Knight wrote:

I *remember* good GM vehicles. Heck, my dad still has one in his driveway. I'm here because a) I do have a fondness for the older GM products and b) I currently have an '05 Impala as a company car (no choice in the matter.) Is it wrong to stand up and express my honest opinion when people say things like "you're unpatriotic if you don't buy GM" or "there's no difference between a GM car and (insert import maker of your choice here)" or should I just nod and say yes, you're right, GM certainly doesn't have any ergonomic, performance, or quality issues these days and public perception of their inferiority must simply be a mass delusion?
Personally I think we do GM and ourselves a disservice by not expressing our dislike of their current product offerings and not encouraging them to build the products that we really want to buy.
nate
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You keep saying the same things over an over but the fact of the mater is more American still buy millions more vehicles from GM than any import. Obviously your opinion has not contributed to who buys what, so why do you keep saying the same things about GM in a GM NG, where most buyer disagree with what you have to say about how bad you think their vehicles might be? If you don't like what GM has to offer, buy something else and stop complaining here
mike
If all you have

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Mike Hunter wrote:
(top posting fixed)

Of course I keep saying the same things. Your posts do nothing to change the FACTS that my Impala is an annoying POS, the FACT the widespread perception of American buyers is that American cars are of inferior design and quality to imports, and the FACT that imports offer higher resale value, are more pleasant to drive, and generally are more reliable and durable than their American counterparts. Also I don't have time to continuously prove your assertions wrong, but you have been wrong with your sales figures in the past, and I suspect that you don't really check them, you just make shit up.
The problem is that GM is full of apologists like you who just can't understand why we DO buy something else. I would LOVE to see GM healthy and offering something I want to buy. Please, GM, start listening.
nate
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If all you

Neither Mikey nor GM is apt to listen any time soon, both have a dead end mindset. To think that the Board and Marketing that got GM into this hole is the same set that is going to fix the mess is ludicrous.
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I don't own a GM vehicle but GM sales are up for the fourth quarter, according to the latest stockholders report. LOL
mike
If all you

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