Why do you post here-------

Greetings,

The one and only way to deal with trolls is to completely ignore them. Do not respond in any way and place their names in your kill-file so you don't receive their posts. It doesn't take long for even a troll to learn that if she can't get a rise out of someone on the group they will leave and post their garbage elsewhere.

Cheers - Jonathan

I read this NG as my employer forces me to drive a GM vehicle.

GM hasn't made a great product since the early 70s.

The old 70s A-bodies were world class (wasn't the Olds Cutlass the best selling car in the world for a couple years?) the new GM passenger cars are average at best.

nate

Come on Nate. Get real. It's apparent that you are still lamenting the demise of the Studebaker Corporation and are lashing out at the rest of the automotive world! *lol* Nate, I hate to be the one to break it to you, but Studebaker's not coming back.

Bankrupcy protection does not mean the end of the company. It could come out of it stronger than ever.

Jane

Sometimes I wish that it were still possible to enter the market with a good old name and a better car....a successful 'Tucker' or rebirth of Studebaker maybe.

Tuckerbaker could buy the best engines, trannies, airconditioning systems, ete from other suppliers and assemble them in a chassis that is strong, quiet, and roadworthy.

Give the American people something worth buying. Oh well....

Well, if you really wanna go there... why does my '55 Stude coupe ride better than my new Impala? (granted, it's got heavy duty springs, gas shocks, and Super Hawk sway bars, but still... you can consider it basically a '63 Hawk mechanically, and it was an outdated design even then.)

There actually have been some efforts to revive the Studebaker name, most recently by Avanti Motors trying to cash in on the hugeass SUV craze. I have to say that I have mixed feelings about that... nice to see a proud name back; not so nice to see it on such an ugly vehicle. It never really got off the ground anyway although it did get them lots of press a couple years ago.

It's not so much that I'm nostalgic for Studebaker in particular; I'm just nostalgic for cars that were cars, not apparent extensions of one's living room, and noisy, slow, ill-handling ones at that. Seems to be a very small niche market these days for vehicles that are basically good mechanically with high quality appointments that aren't loaded down with gadgets and gizmos. Do you really think that people will look back 30 years from now on today's GM product line with the fond nostalgia that they do that of, say, 1965-71? Where's the equivalent of the Cutlass today? GM can't compete on price and they ought to know that; they need to come up with some compelling products that have clear advantages to what is available from other mfgrs. and they are not doing that. Unless you LIKE vehicles that scream "rental fleet..."

There are bright spots, like the GTO... but not enough of them. I wouldn't buy a GTO anyway; it's priced out of reach of the average person and unfortunately my income isn't significantly greater than average... but I'm curious why they can't seem to take the lessons learned from the GTO (by all reports its chassis dynamics are excellent) and apply them to their more mundane products... What's the point of having flagship vehicles like the 'vette and GTO if there's zero relation between them and the rest of the product line?

nate

There are perhaps a few cars that people will look back to in this era, but not too many.

This SUV craze has shown the ugly truth about Americans, their taste in autos, and their buying habits.

Plenty of companies have pulled this trick off in the past fourty years. Unfortunately none of them call the USA home :(.

John

Perhaps he's a coward?

We would certainly welcome your recommendations to help GM *be* better. You haven't posted such "constructive criticism". Oh, by the way, input into how a person or organization can *be* better, needn't be criticism at all. It can be friendly advise, without criticism. Hmm, we haven't seen that from you either. It might be wise to "practise what you preach".

That's because they didn't park their computers in the company lot every day to put salt in the wound! *lol* You might have felt differently if your company had fallen on hard economic times and you had faced the prospect of being laid off, while your coworkers continued to bring in their computers with "Intel Inside" every day and flaunted Intel's superior technology. That's the comparison you have to consider. You have to walk in the same shoes as the GM employees.

You're right, it's not all about you John. I couldn't agree more. What made you even think it was? We couldn't give a damn about you and your "mindless" drivel. >

Those companies that have pulled this off in the past forty years are no longer in business you dumbass! They don't have a home, period!

Well, I have posted a number of times about what I expect, and what it would take to make me want to buy another GM car. My desires span several generations. In case you have not seen them, here are some...maybe not all...of the issues:

(1) I want an engine that holds up. Not a 3800 Gen II that blows a freaking plastic plenum which I have to pay for. Shitty engineering. Very Very shitty. (2) I want a transmission that doesn't have to be rebuilt...to the tune of $2000 +...around

100K miles. The 440T4 Metric was one of the worst pieces of shit GM even came out with. And like (1) above, they avoided the issue. (3) I dont want a car loaded with computerized bullshit. I do not need a computerized air conditioner, or anything that makes it hard or super expensive to repair. We recently had to pay $600 for an HVAC computer that went bonkers. A switch and a thermostat would work as well. I dont want any more shitteaux complicated electronics that absolutely necessary. I do not need 48 microprocessors integrated into my sun visor. (4) I want a car body that doesnt creak, moan, rattle, and complain. Body by Fisher used to mean something. These latter day bunghole rattly SOB's are a disgrace. (5) I want an air conditioning compressor that doesn't become petulant and start leaking at the front seal before the new car smell is out of the auto. And while we are at it, lets improve the metallurgy in the heater cores, air conditioner evaporators, and maybe even in the radiators. (6) I want an alternator that holds up to the heat and stresses put on it.

Fire some of the union workers, and some of the pimply faced lavender shirt wearing executives if need be, and get GM back on course. If you can't do it, go the hell bankrupt.

Not at all, mostly because I have a lot better things to do that to argue with people on usenet.

Buy what you like and believe what you want, I really don't care.

If you are a GM believer, put your money where your mouth is and load up on GM stock in your retirement portfolio. I used to own GM stock, but sold mine about a year ago when it became clear to me that GM management doesn't have the stones to turn around their Titanic.

John

You know you are WRONG here. The 3800 is by far the best and most reliable GM or any other car maker ever made. Bar none!

WRONG here too. GM has the best transmissions in the industry.

What car maker doesn't use computer technology in their vehicles?

For your information, Body by Fisher hasn't been for a while now.

More Bull!

More Bull!

Now the TROLL shows his ugly face! Have you ever owned a NEW car or just get Grandma's hand-me-downs?

Not even close. The Gen II 3800 has all sorts of quality defects that cost people a lot of money and put a lot of money in my pocket as I have to repair them. The basic engine design is excellent, but the way they executed many parts of the design "upgrade" from the Gen I engine was really poor.

I doubt that.

I'll agree with you here. Microprocessors are here to stay, and there isn't anything wrong with them. People are simply not used to them or working on them. Also, GM (and I'm sure other's too) tends to rape everybody pricewise on these modules until the cars have been in service for a number of years. One of the big reasons they use microprocessors all over the place is the reduced amount of wiring needed to operate items in the vehicle. Plus the control that they can have over all the different functions in the car (which I realize many people on these newsgroups could care less about, but they aren't the majority of the buying public).

The alternator's appear to be getting better. We certainly don't replace them as often as we used to. But they were pretty bad in the 90's.

Ian

A lot of nonsense which is snipped.

Ooooo, calling people names ... that is so convincing!

John

The 3800 is the best engine I have ever seen. I have owned 2 Series I's and a Series II, all are excellent engines. The 3800 is also on the top 10 engines of the century list.

That is your opinion. I like my electronics, as do many others.

Without those microprocessors your car would have more wires in it then there would be room for. Get with the 21st century. All cars have computers in them. If you don't like them, go buy something from the 50's.

I have no problems with my present and past bodies. My current one has over

275,000km's on it, all others except one, had well over 200,000.

Yes, the company needs to re-think things, but they still build good auto's.