Why is Everyone Diss'n GM?

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Seems like everyone is Diss'n GM, the below article says GM shows up with lots of DUDS at the Auto Show.
http://www.autoweb.com/content/shared/articles/templates/index.cfm/article_id_int/481/id/24586

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http://www.autoweb.com/content/shared/articles/templates/index.cfm/article_id_int/481/id/24586
Well, one thing I have to agree about: Why buy a GM truck rebadged as an ISUZU? What's the point of that? Has anyone ever always wanted an Isuzu so bad they would pass up the same thing labled as a GM product? Why not just up the warranty on the GM equivalent and dump Isuzu altogether? I don't agree that the Canyon/Colorado is at the back of the pack, though.
WW
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WaterWatcher wrote:

Well, properly outfitted, with options you can special order, it is possible to squeek in at just under $20K with rebates on a basic "stripped" 4*4 model with proper offroad accesories, bigger engine, altered diff, etc.
Done this way, it's an Xterra killer. Any other configuration is way overpriced.
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"Lil Rascal:, you forgot to mention that GM also had the top "Stud" of the auto show. You didn't do that intentionally, did you? Have another look. ;-)
Best Buys for 2005, '06 and Beyond 2006 Chevrolet Corvette Z06
http://www.autoweb.com/content/shared/articles/templates/index.cfm/article_id_int/480
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HHR, I've heard refereed to as GM's PT Cruiser 5 years too late .
Hard to believe, but after 25 years with GM, there's a chance my 6th car might not be built by the General.
: - (
Harryface ؿ 1991 Pontiac Bonneville LE 302,552 miles
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Harry Face wrote:

Don't feel too much shame. There are many other decent vehicles out there. Also, despite what you might have heard, the truth is that where the headquarters is located is meaningless as most corporations either dodge the taxes or get incentives to builfd factories(like no taxes for a decade or more on the facility) or even if they do none of the above, the profits all go into the corporate coffers - the investors.
Not the economy - not based where the headquarters is.
What matters, then, is where it's made and how. I suggest a trip to the UAW website and check out which vehicles are made with U.S. union labor. Keeping the plant running and paying all of the workers is by far the most expensive part of making a car, so a plant making, say, Corollas, with U.S. parts and UAW labor, is certainly better than a GM product made in Mexico.
http://www.uaw.org/uawmade/cartruck2005.cfm That's my personal shopping list. Any vehicle on that list keeps the highest percentage of the cost in the local economy.
Note - A few Mitsubishi, Toyota, and other brands are in the list as well. The Pontiac Vibe is a clone of the Matrix built at the NUUMI plant. A couple of billion a year into the U.S. economy - total salaries and upkeep, from just that one plant.
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You are somewhat confused, profits earned by foreign corporation leave the country. In the case of Japanese corporations, they leave tax free. American corporations pay federal taxes on the net profit earned in the US no matter where the vehicle are assembled. The shareholders one again pay taxes on that portion of those same profits that are distributed to them as dividends.
Do a bit of research on a subject before you post your incorrect opinion on that subject, WBMA. Particularly on a subject of which you obviously have little or no knowledge, like corporate taxes.. The amount of federal corporate income taxes, paid by America corporations, is available to anyone willing to search the IRS site.
mike hunt
Joseph Oberlander wrote:

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That is correct.

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snipped-for-privacy@mailcity.com wrote:

There are so many ways to not claim a profit or to dodge this that it's laughable. In any case, the money might as well be going overseas as those profits never get into the mainstream economy. "Trickle-down" economics don't work when your company is loosing money.
But you keep on buying U.S. "brand" cars made in China or Mexico or wherever. That few percent that the company makes off of the car in profits is way more important than the 50% or more in salaries and upkeep on that plant costs per vehicle. (sic for the impared)
I'll gladly give Toyota 10% of my money if I can give 50% to the workers in the U.S. - that's a fair trade.
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Obviously you did not search the IRS site for who pays Corporate income taxes on profits earned in the US, if you believe that stuff.
You are certainly are entitled to spend your money where you wish, but once again you seem to be confused. The fast majority of vehicles sold in the US by domestic manufactures are made in the US.
Take a walk around some new car dealers lots, WBMA. A quick check of the first number of the VIN will indicated the country of manufacture or assembly. A '1' indicates the vehicle was assembled in the US of at least 75% north American sourced parts. A '2' indicates assembled in Canada. A '3' indicates the vehicle was assembled in Mexico. A '4' indicates the vehicle was assembled in the US of less than 75%, but more than 40% north American sourced parts. A '5' indicates the vehicle was assembled in the US of less than 40% north American sourced parts. A vehicle with a '5' could actually have none of its parts made in the US. Contrary to what you believe about Toyotas vehicles, the vast majority of their vehicles, sold in the US today, are VINed with either a 'J,' Japan or a '5' or a '2' The exception, are those that are built in the GM/Toyota assembly plant in California. They have a '1' because the UAW contract, in force there, requires American parts. The number one selling car is the US, the Camry, has a '5' or at best some have a '4.' The number one selling vehicle, buy nearly double Camry sales, the Ford F150 has a '1' in contrast.
As too the state and local taxes paid by assembly plants and their employees, both domestic and foreign owned plants, pay those taxes. Workers in domestic plant however receive higher wages, and thus pay more taxes to the states and the feds. They also have better benefits than the workers in foreign owned plants, even though Toyota vehicles sell for 20% to 30% more than their domestic competitor similarly sized and equipped vehicles.
A side by side comparison is available for you to verify if you chose. Toyota Matrix and the Pontiac Vibe are basically the same vehicle. Go price them both, you will find the Toyota assembled in Canada of mostly imported parts, will cost you around $2,000 more to drive home than the Vibe made in the US with mostly American parts.
Recently Toyota, because of complaints to the FCC, have changed their advertising of "Made in America" to "assemble in the US of world sourced parts" in the fine print.
mike hunt
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snipped-for-privacy@mailcity.com wrote:

Sure, some are, but there are also many U.S. made vehicles from other companies as well. That GM *corporate* doesn't pay taxes since it's in the red, well, that means effectively it's the same. In any case, trickle-down of taxes then to our governmetn that wastes money on subsudies, paid propaganda news segments, weapons in space, wars we don't really need, and so on... Exactly how much actually gets to the local economy from that tax GM may or may not pay? 1%? 2%?
If it was up to me, I'd find a way to starve D.C. and force them to implode. That's a whole other discussion, though. They need some tough love and since they won't wean themselves, they really need to get their butts kicked by us voters until they do.

Which means nothing. If the part in question is assembled in Mexico, Canada, or the U.S., even if it's made out of mostly parts from Indonesia or China or wherever they can outsource, it's considered "domestic" since they don't track the supply chain more than a level or so deep.
Mexico is not U.S., last I checked, no matter what NAFTA says.

I see a lot of these, actually. GM has huge plants up there.

Tons of these too, though not as many.

These are actually the most common IME. But, as I said, since they don't track things to the level of where that resistor or plastic piece came from in your radio, it's all a shell game.
All I do know is where the plant is. If it's made with union labor in a U.S. plant, then it gets my vote. Hundreds of millions a year flowing into that state's economy, reguardless of whether or not corporate is making or loosing money.

I looked and saw plenty of "4" Acuras at the dealership, thanks to their plant out east. If you look closely, it's really a "1" other than the drivetrain, which they wisely import. I'd take a Japanese transmission over some box of parts from Chrysler anyday.

Actually, I don't care about what Ford may or may not be doing. If the car is on that list as being union made in a U.S. plant, I'll consider it.

Not necessarily so. There are lots of incentives given to domestic plants by the local governments, ususally in the form of tax breaks for 10 or 20 years. Also, wages outside of UAW tend to stink equally.

Btw, GM lost 2 billion last year on rebates alone - basically pricing the cars at under the competition, and STILL not keeping customers. So it has to be more than just price. I'd take a Camry(U.S. built, mind you) over any Ford or Chrysler product. I know which will last longer and hold its value better.

Only because of the rebates GM is giving. Once you option out the GM vehicle, it's within a few hundred dollars. Now, personally, I like the Vibe. It's a good car other than the butt-ugly grill in front. But you'll notice that the Vibe isn't made at the NUUMI plant anymore. Oops. 2004 and 2005 they stopped making it there.
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Apparently you are not confused just completely misinformed or simply determined to believe what you want to believe. You have it backwards the import brands are the ones that have been subsided by state and local governments. Most of the plants they operate were built with state bonds, funded by the taxpayers. The workers were even trained in state funded Votex Schools
Get yourself a copy of "Automotive News." It list the monthly production of every manufacture in the US, Canada and imported. Honda is the ONLY Japanese manufacture making the majority of it parts and vehicles in the US that they sell in the US. They were the one who complained to the FCC about Toyota erroneously advertising their vehicles as made in America, when over 80% of what the sell in the US is imported or made of imported parts. Conversely GM and Ford are actually made in the US. But then again me thinks you do not want the truth on this subject. ;)
mike hunt
Joseph Oberlander wrote:

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snipped-for-privacy@mailcity.com wrote:

Actually, most of GM is now made in Canada and Mexico, or shortly will be. Still gets a 100% domestic content sticker, thanks to NAFTA. (though not a "1" on the VIN)
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Not so, 80% of the vehicles GM sells in the US have a '1' not a '2' or '3' as you seem to think.
mike hunt
Joseph Oberlander wrote:

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On Thu, 28 Apr 2005 16:55:02 GMT, Joseph Oberlander

And just what is wrong with a vehicle made in Canada?
The company I work for just closed its US and Mexico plants - not because of taxes etc, but because of the workforces. Vuarra
Quid quid latine dictum sit altum videtur. (That which is said in Latin sounds profound.)
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wrote:

Nothing is wrong with a vehicle made in Canada. It is cheaper to make there. In particular the health car is much less.
Medical care costs the company $1400 for a U.S. built car Much less in Canada. http://www.inthesetimes.com/site/main/article/2081 /
For some medical procedures the Canadians have to come to the U.S. and pay for treatment as their medical system does not want to invest in expensive equipment.
http://www.sigmacon.com/greenlight_healthcare1.html
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Vuarra wrote:

Virtually none of the money makes it into the U.S. economy.
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Interesting statement. When talking about Japanese cars made in the US I've read in this group that "all of the profits go back to Japan" but when GM cars are made in Canada, "none of the money makes it into the US economy"? Why is that?
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WaterWatcher wrote:

It's not true. The upkeep, salaries, workers comp and medical payments(emplyer's part), power and maintainence of the plant...
It all adds up to the largest part of the car's expense. Profits are nothing compared to the thousands per vehicle that get paid out all all levels running the plant.
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Not so. GM pays federal corporate income taxes on the profits earned in the US, regardless of country of origin of the vehicle. Toyota on the other hand pay no US corporate income tax and the profits earned in the US.
mike hunt
WaterWatcher wrote:

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