Windshield Washer Fluid Heater Recall ?

The GM website does not mention the Bucik LaCrosse in the recall
notification. NHTSA does not include the 2009 LaCrosse in new the
recall either. It does mention other 2007-2009 Buicks, so I am
surprised your vehicle is not included if you have the feature.

You can search for recalls at
http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/recalls/recallsearch.cfm  . There are no
recalls listed for a 2009 Buick LaCrosse. Does your car actually have
the heated windshield washer fluid feature?

For the GM text see:

http://media.gm.com/content/media/us/en/news/news_detail.brand_gm.html/content/Pages/news/us/en/2010/Jun/0608_gm_washer

I coupied the following from
http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/recalls/recallresults.cfm?start=1&SearchType=DateSearch&date=06/01/2010&type=V&SCR323=false&summary=true&prod_id=0&PrintVersion=YES

            Vehicle Make / Model:       Model Year(s):
                 BUICK / ENCLAVE       2008-2009

                 BUICK / LUCERNE       2006-2009

                 CADILLAC / CTS       2008-2009

                 CADILLAC / DTS       2006-2009

                 CADILLAC / ESCALADE       2007-2009

                 CADILLAC / ESCALADE ESV       2007-2009

                 CADILLAC / ESCALADE EXT       2007-2009

                 CHEVROLET / AVALANCHE       2007-2009

                 CHEVROLET / SILVERADO 3500       2007-2009

                 CHEVROLET / SUBURBAN       2007-2009

                 CHEVROLET / TAHOE       2007-2009

                 CHEVROLET / TRAVERSE       2009

                 GMC / ACADIA       2007-2009

                 GMC / SIERRA       2007-2009

                 GMC / YUKON       2007-2009

                 GMC / YUKON XL       2007-2009

                 HUMMER / H2       2006-2009

                 SATURN / OUTLOOK       2007-2009

            Manufacturer: GENERAL MOTORS CORP. Mfr's Report Date: JUN
04, 2010
            NHTSA CAMPAIGN ID Number: 10V240000  N/A
            NHTSA Action Number: N/A

      Component: ELECTRICAL SYSTEM
      Potential Number of Units Affected: 1365070
      Summary:
       GM IS RECALLING CERTAIN MODEL YEAR 2006-2009 BUICK, LUCERNE;
CADILLAC DTS; HUMMER H2; MODEL YEAR 2008-2009 BUICK ENCLAVE; CADILLAC
CTS; MODEL YEAR 2007-2009 CADILLAC ESCALADE, ESCALADE ESV, ESCALADE
EXT; CHEVROLET AVALANCHE, SILVERADO, SUBURBAN, TAHOE; GMC ACADIA,
SIERRA, YUKON, YUKON XL; SATURN OUTLOOK; AND MODEL YEAR 2009 CHEVROLET
TRAVERSE VEHICLES EQUIPPED WITH A HEATED WASHER FLUID SYSTEM (HWFS). A
RECALL WAS IMPLEMENTED IN 2008 TO ADD A FUSE TO THE CONTROL CIRCUIT
HARNESS TO ADDRESS THE POTENTIAL CONSEQUENCES OF A PRINTED CIRCUIT
BOARD (PCB) ELECTRICAL SHORT. HOWEVER, THERE HAVE BEEN NEW REPORTS OF
THERMAL INCIDENTS ON HWFS MODULES AFTER THIS IMPROVEMENT WAS
INSTALLED. THESE INCIDENTS RESULTED FROM A NEW FAILURE MODE ATTRIBUTED
TO THE DEVICE'S THERMAL PROTECTION FEATURE. THE SIGNIFICANCE VARIES
FROM MINOR DISTORTION TO CONSIDERABLE MELTING OF THE PLASTIC AROUND
THE HWFS FLUID CHAMBER.
      Consequence:
       IT IS POSSIBLE FOR THE HEATED WASHER MODULE TO IGNITE AND A
FIRE MAY OCCUR.
      Remedy:
       DEALERS WILL PERMANENTLY DISABLE AND REMOVE THE HEATED WASHER
FLUID MODULE. AN UPDATED PAGE FOR THE OWNER MANUAL WILL BE PROVIDED
AND INSERTED IN THE OWNER MANUAL TO DOCUMENT THAT THE FEATURE HAS BEEN
PERMANENTLY DISABLED AND REMOVED FROM THE VEHICLE. THE SAFETY RECALL
IS EXPECTED TO BEGIN ON OR BEFORE JUNE 11, 2010. OWNERS MAY CONTACT
BUICK AT 1-866-608-8080, CADILLAC AT 1-866-982-2339, CHEVROLET AT
1-800-630-2438, SATURN AT 1-800-972-8876, GMC AT 1-866-996-9463 AND
HUMMER AT 1-800-732-5493 OR AT THE OWNER CENTER AT
WWW.GMOWNERCENTER.COM.
      Notes:
       OWNERS MAY ALSO CONTACT THE NATIONAL HIGHWAY TRAFFIC SAFETY
ADMINISTRATION'S VEHICLE SAFETY HOTLINE AT 1-888-327-4236 (TTY
1-800-424-9153), OR GO TO HTTP://WWW.SAFERCAR.GOV .


Ed

On 09/06/2010 9:47 AM, C. E. White wrote:

http://media.gm.com/content/media/us/en/news/news_detail.brand_gm.html/content/Pages/news/us/en/2010/Jun/0608_gm_washer

http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/recalls/recallresults.cfm?start=1&SearchType=DateSearch&date=06/01/2010&type=V&SCR323=false&summary=true&prod_id=0&PrintVersion=YES

So it really looks like they are not going to fix it, just disable it.
So not a fix, just turn it off.

If he has the feature, could be he has the problem.  Would not be the
first time GM or NHTSA fowled up on data entry, in their favor of course.

--
Liberalism - a disease of envy, greed, entitlement and KAOS.

That's OK.  They are giving you money back right?  Since it is a feature you
pair to have, it should be repaired, replaced, or refunded.

I'm curious why they have *electric* heated wiper nozzles anyway.  Why
not just wrap a coil of hard tubing around one of the heater hoses and
call it soup?  KISS!

nate

When are you most likely to need heated wiper fluid? I know I'd love
to have heated washer fluid when I first drive off on a very cold
morning, before the heater is working. Even when I scrap the
windshield, frost often reforms on the windshield once I start moving.
Spraying cold fuid on the windshield usually makes visibility worse. I
think heated fluid would be great at that time. Of course the best fix
is the electrically heated windshield. I had one once, and wish they
were still commonly available. It was great.

Ed

On Thu, 10 Jun 2010 11:30:33 -0400, "C. E. White"


If atmospheric conditions cause frost to form on the windshield the
only solution is to warm up the windshield before you continue.
That's a pretty rare condition, but I've seen it.
I live in northern Illinois near Chicago.  Driving in all weather
conditions for many years.
On the rare occasion I've used washers before the windshield is warm
the frost evaporates real quick.
I use the winter blend, which is dosed with alcohol, all year.
Doesn't pay to let the stuff freeze because you change it too late,
and you don't hardly use it in the summer anyway.
In just about every case I mistook inside condensation for outside
condensation.
Still not good, so I make sure my windshield is clean before I park.
Or get it clean before I start off.
Then I don't have to worry about that.  Can't even remember the last
time it happened.
I can probably count on one hand how many times my windshield frosted
a bit because of cold washer fluid in +40 years of driving.
And I never felt I was in danger.  Doesn't feel good, but rare and
easily avoided anyway.
Nate's idea wouldn't work because if you don't heat it at the nozzle
you'll get frosted.  Besides, the heater hoses don't get hot right
away.  By the time they're warm the windshield should be warming up.
I sure agree with the KISS though.
Heating washer fluid is about the most stupid thing I ever heard of.
GM is getting what they deserve for such a lame-ass idea.
Nannyism at its best.
Wonder if the ECU throws a code and puts the engine in closed loop
when the windshield washer heater sensor detects a problem.

--Vic

On 06/10/2010 01:30 PM, Vic Smith wrote:

It is helpful if you don't park your daily driver in a garage, and you
live somewhere where the temp. can be above freezing during the day but
below at night.  Even here in DC-land, there have been days where I've
had to let the car warm up for at least 10 minutes or so before the ice
will come off the windshield, and anything to speed that process along
is appreciated.  Also appreciated are the windshield wiper arms that you
can pull away from the windshield and leave them there, so the blades
don't freeze to the windshield.  Unfortunately my old VWs had this
feature way back in 1984 if not earlier (I'm trying to remember if my
'71 Porsche would do this) but while my 2008 Impala does this (finally!)
the 2005 did *not.*

You'd think that being based in Detroit GM would have been cognizant of
the convenience of this simple feature...

Frosting is an issue, yes, but so is coming out in the morning and
finding a solid sheet of ice on your windshield.  Throwing some
cardboard or other material under the wipers can help, but if it's
already raining when you park the car for the night there'll still be
some ice there, and also that requires planning ahead, and if you think
you don't need it but it ends up freezing...  Honestly the best thing
that I've found to help with this is using silicone wiper blades; they
leave a thin film of silicone on the windshield and I can really tell
the difference, ice in the wiper tracks adheres to the windshield much
less tenaciously than it does to the rest of the windshield and thus is
frees up sooner so there's less idling in the driveway required before
you can clean off the windshield and go.  (having a defroster grid on
the rear window is also crucial, but I can't remember the last car I had
without one - probably aforementioned '71 Porsche, and that was a 914,
where the rear window was vertical and also recessed into a roll-bar
type arrangement, so it wasn't needed there.)

I agree that an actual heated windshield would be best, but that causes
other issues, such as blocking of radar detectors, EZPass transponders,
GPS receivers, etc.

nate

--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel

So you don't have to wait until the car is warmed up first.  Some mornings
the windshield will have a bit of frost on it.  The newer fluids have the
ability to remove a fair amount of frost with no scraping.  Warm fluid would
be even better.    Even using the remost starter, my car is not warm enough
that the engine coolant would make any difference fist time out.

Other companies have successfully offered these systems.  Dont tell me that
GM cant solve something so uncomplicated as this.

I wouldnt want one of them on my car in any case.

On 11/06/2010 6:33 AM, hls wrote:

GM can't do much right at all.  That is why they went bankrupt needing
your tax dollars in the first place.  Your politicians were pretty quick
to sellout all of north america for GM ineptness.  GM incompetance has
been going on so long they know no other way.

--
Liberalism - a disease of envy, greed, entitlement and KAOS.

Once again our goofy friend Canuck57 is telling us the sky is falling.   LOL

Thime for a little critical thinking...

Don't you suppose that GM is buying their system from the same
supplier that provide it to other companies? I do.

Do you really think GM's system is more fialure prone than the similar
systems used by other companies? I don't.

Why do you suppose GM is recalling their system and other companies
aren't?

I can think of two reasons - 1) GM screwed up and installed the
systems in a bad location (not likely in my opinion). Or 2) GM
installed the system in hundreds of thousands of vehicles and the low,
but not zero, failure rate led to a significant number of failures in
GM products. In the current climate GM felt the fastest, safest,
cheapest solution was to just deactivate the whole mess. Toyota's
solution (at least until this year) would have been 1) deny there was
a problem, 2) lie to NHTSA, 3) lie some more, 4) lie a lot more, 5)
blame the Customer for using the system inappropriately, 6) blame the
suppleir, 7) finally offer to deactivate the system out of the
goodness of their heart, 8) sit back while their shills claim this is
another outstanding example of Toyota's fabulous Customer service, 9)
run ten thousand commercials mentioning the mysterious Toyota Safety
System (really just a bunch of BS advertising copy meant to obsure the
facts).

In my mind the biggest difference between Toyota and GM is that Toyota
has better liars and can hide behind the Japanese government.

Ed

I dont know where they get it...and really dont care..For all I know,
they designed it and had some subcontracter build it.

If they cannot deploy it functionally and safely, it says something
about their foresight and ability to build a car and the subsystems that
they themselves choose.

If another car manufacturer has the same de-call, we can revisit the
story.

On Fri, 11 Jun 2010 09:05:28 -0400, "C. E. White"


The biggest difference has always been concentrating good engineering
on a few mass market cars that will make you money because they don't
nickel and dime consumers to death by spreading engineering resources
too thin.  And those different directions are conscious decisions, not
accidents.
The corporate philosophies were totally different.
Solid engineering steak versus sizzle.
That may be changing now.
Because Toyota won the war.
But they all lie.  Difference is how many times you have to do it.
The washer fluid heating system company is now bankrupt.
GM is deactivating/removing the junk and giving customers $100.
The first recall for this crap they tried to fix it with a wire
harness and fusing.
Don't know what Toyota is doing with the Corollas in Japan which has
the same junk put in them.  Daihatsu fell for it too.
http://news.thomasnet.com/companystory/Microheat-Produces-One-Millionth-HotShot-Unit-535472
Saw a post where a guy says this silly thing demands a 60 amp fuse.
Spit on KISS and it bites back.

--Vic

http://news.thomasnet.com/companystory/Microheat-Produces-One-Millionth-HotShot-Unit-535472

Despite all the accolades, this award winning systems seems to be a pisser.
I am sure we will eventually hear if Toyotas and Daihatsus have the same
problem as GM, or whether they managed to tame the beast.

KISS is important.   Inadequate development, IMO, on this item.

Ever notice when Toyota, or one of the other Jap auto manufacturers has a
recall, the Toyota loyalist etal say that's a good thing because they take
care of their customers.

When any domestic auto manufacturers has a recall it is because they were
cutting corners to save a few dollars?     LOL