2006 Honda Ridgeline - Invoice Price CAD

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Poor gas mileage? 38 mpg is poor gas mileage? And if it fails at reduced emissions, how does it meet muster to be on sale in California?

And if your needs exceed a Civic LX 4 door?
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Kent Finnell wrote:

Yes it's poor mileage. A 4 cyl. solution would do even better. That's the point of hybrid: reduce consumption. Not make minor muscle cars.

Hybrid can be scaled up as much as needed for the need. There is no need for a hybrid passenger sedan to have more than a 4 cyl. engine. The electric motors will provide the boost for the acceleration and cyl is more than enough for cruise.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/graphic/2005/12/16/GR2005121600098.html refers
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http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/graphic/2005/12/16/GR2005121600098.html
want is. You get what you want, your perceived need. Others can do the same. A 4 cyl. Accord may fit your needs/wants. But if a fellow has a wife and two high school linebackers he needs to transport, he may honestly need the V6. You don't get to dictate his needs or mine or any of the other 280 million Americans. Frustrating, isn't it?
Companies build to the desires of their customers. Sometimes that gets them caught in a crack. Witness the current SUV bust. Now if Honda comes up with a Pilot V6 Hybrid, some of those current and former SUV owners will flock to it.
Personally I've never needed or wanted a SUV or PU and an Accord coupe or sedan is probably as large as I'd go, L4 or V6, my choice, NOT your dictate. Right now I'd like a 2006 Civic Si and screw whatever you think I need.
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Kent Finnell wrote:

Where did I 'dictate' anything? I simply would have preferred that Honda take the 4 cyl. approach with the hybrid and really try to get the most out of the technology at the mpg level. Instead they are catering to the performance "want". This makes a good business decision, but a poor objective decision. What the world needs is much less oil consumption.
Fratration: you Americans in particular are gobbling up 1/4 of the world's non-renewable oil resources to feed your petty "wants". There is a bigger picture, but most Americans are blithely unwilling to face up to it. Truly a large part of that 1/4 goes to legitimate needs. But driving to a high rise office job in a large SUV is simple waste. If gasoline were and endless resource, nobody would care. But that's not the case, is it? http://www.nationmaster.com/graph-T/ene_oil_con_mil_ton_sha_of_tot
You had a great warning in the 70's ... and promptly forgot it.
You've killed over 2000 of your own soldiers so far, not to mention those of other nations, civilian contractors, Iraqi civilians and so on.
All in the name of oil security. If the US would make the effort to reduce consumption and promote true innovation in energy use with the money wasted in an unwinnable Iraq, the US and the world would benefit immensely. And those young men and women would have been spared an early death would be able to enjoy the "American Dream" as much as you get to do it.
Please remember when you tank up that American soldiers are dying for your privilege to do so. Seems to be a deadly shame to waste a single drop.

It's not what "anyone" wants its what the world needs. On that note, the Chinese economy is growing in huge leaps and bounds. And they too have discovered the joy of the automobile... it's really going to get much worse before it gets even slightly better.
Given the American trade deficit, personal debt, boomers retiring and selling off over valuated homes, huge government debt and the dwindling purchassing power of the US dollar, Americans at the individual level will need to wake up or have a very rude awakening.
By the way, on a percap basis we are no better than Americans in oil consumption. OTOH, we are overwhelmingly influenced by American lifestyle (eg: big fast cars) and products (GM, Ford, Chrysler). OTOOH, we have proven oil reserves second only to Saudi Arabia. But that's great, we sell most of it to the US and further increase our trade surplus with the US.
Cheers, Alan.
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Alan Browne wrote:

theyre doing both. theres the civic hybrid, and the insight for economy, and the accord hybrid for their little experiment into performance applications. i dont notice people flocking to the accord, and i dont notice any accords able to go in the carpool lane on the freeway.

and the only time people bitch or DO anything is when gas is $3/gal. my primary commuting vehicle is one of these:
http://www.suzuki-gb.co.uk/model.asp?idC
dont think i ever put more than $8/week into the tank, going to work and running errands.
before that, i had two of these:
http://www.motorcycle.com/mo/mchonda/helix.html
and before that ive had at least one scooter going back to 1987.

i feel NO pity toward the merc^H^H^H "contractors". as for the soldiers? i wonder how many would have signed up if theyd known our puppet in chief was going to lead them to war.
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SoCalMike wrote:

Most of the contractors there are doing fairly mundane things like driving trucks and running kitchens and laundry's. Nothing mercenary about it, it frees soldiers up to soldier.
When you enlist to arms, you have to expect to be thrust in harms way. OTOH, when you're elected to the most powerful post in the US, you're not supposed to squander your nation's youth where other solutions would do much better.
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Alan Browne wrote:

true, and they get paid DAMN good money to do it. up to $100k/yr or more, tax free. but they know their laundry or kitchen can be blown up at a moments notice, or they could be kidnapped and have their heads lopped off on al jazeera TV.

especially since he did everything he could to not serve himself. same with chaney and rumsfeld as well. chickenhawks- the whole lot of em.
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They opted for the under-bed lockable trunk rather than an easily stolen or damaged spare hanging, exposed, in front of the rear bumper. As much as one tries, one cannot have it all.

As compared to what, a Prius or a Civic Hybrid? It does show an improvement over the standard Accord V6, 29/37 city/highway vs. 24/34. If you want maximum fuel efficiency, stick yourself in an Insight. Forget comfort, passenger and luggage capacity. Will you scoff the new Lexus Hybrid Luxury Sedan? It probably won't do any better.

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Opps, excuse me, the EPA estimates for the standard Accord V6 should be 21/30. What I originally had were for the Accord L4. Of course YMMV, but an 8 to 7 mpg increase while not losing performance or comfort seems like a pretty good deal. But then there's the price premium.
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Kent Finnell wrote:

i havent seen any hybrid accords with "carpool lane stickers" in california. im pretty sure the DMV has a formula based on emissions profiles that decides which cars get the golden ticket, so to speak.
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Kent Finnell wrote:

They could have achieved much better mileage with a 4 banger-hybrid. Period.
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That's okay - it is a common error. The objective of hybrids is to correct a huge design compromise we have been forced into for a century: the use of the same power source for low speeds, acceleration and high speeds. Whenever auto makers increase engine power in cars (as they did in the '70s and are currently doing) the flub becomes even more glaring - we have 300 hp engines pulling 3000 lb cars around. Not a great concept.
Hybridization effectively separates engine power from acceleration performance and frees the engine from stupid things like low speed operation and idling. Sizing the engine becomes a simple exercise: it has to have enough power to climb a 6% grade at 75 mph (under current US standards) at full vehicle load. There is no passing reserve in the engine because that is handled by the electrics. There is no engine consideration of acceleration power because that is not the engine's job... the engine is there to keep the batteries charged. Since engine operation is very predictable - it never has to respond to somebody tapping their right foot in time to the music on the stereo - the engine can be refined for a more limited purpose, with better efficiency and reliability. With reduced engine mass warm-up can be much quicker, which is good for the engine, good for emissions and good for the passengers on cold days. Even sources that have drivability problems can be used; it no longer matters if it takes a gas turbine ten seconds to spool up, because it doesn't affect the throttle response.
Anyway, that is the goal. Fuel economy is a result of correcting the original design compromise - and is a driving force at present - but it is not the underlying purpose. The current generation (no pun) falls short in several ways, and I agree the Accord Hybrid is an example of not even trying. Honda knows how to do so much better, at least in their concept cars. http://world.honda.com/Tokyo2001/auto/DUALNOTE /
Mike
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Michael Pardee wrote:

<snipped>
I don't disagree with you. However, a more modest 4 banger Accord would very easilly achieve acceptable performance in a hybrid with better mileage numbers.
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Hence the 4 cylinder Civic Hybrid ... sheesh, I'll bet you're going to carp about that too. 49/51 mpg with performance on a par with the NA 1.8 4 cylinder.
Honda just didn't slap the 3.0 liter V6 into the nearest Accord and throw in the electric motor for grins and giggles. It is a system, a system that includes the shut down of 3 of the cylinders under the certain conditions, effectively becoming a 3 cylinder. The Civic has a 1.3 liter 4. Hummm, 1.5 3 cylinder, 1.3 4 cylinder.
The Accord is a larger, heavier car that some people need. Of course you might want to opt for a Yugo.
Neither of the 4 - 6 passenger Hondas is a failure. Different specs for different markets, yes but not failures. At least neither of them has had a massive recall because the gas engines shut down at speed like the Toyota hybrid. How many were there ... 75,000 or so?
Then there's always that other line of Hondas ... motorcycles.
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Kent Finnell wrote:

A Civic is too small for a lot of people, including me. An Accord is "just right" (for me and many people) and 4 cyl/manual is fine for me now, so why would I need a 6 cyl. hybrid?
The civic could have been 3 cyl or smaller displacement. The idea is to get accleration from the electric+gas side and cruise+recharge from the gasoline side. But, people these days seem to be overly concerned with strong acceleration. It's thrilling, but unneeded.

And they could have achieved better mileage with a 4 banger. What they wanted to achieve was something with a hybrid label and Jr. Muscle car acceleration.
I have a 4 cyl. accord (manual). It drives very fast and has good but not great acceleration. So why would you need a 6 cyl. in a hybrid. You don't.
3 cyl shut down is good, however you are still dragging around a heavier engine.

Irrelvant. For a familly of 3, an Accord is a sensible solution. But it does not need a 6 cyl. engine.

Irrelevant.
Irrelvant.
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I think so, too. Mating a small electric system to a V6 is not really part of the path forward in hybridization. In fact, I think it's silly. But as long as it sells, I suppose it is a success.
Mike
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On Tue, 13 Dec 2005 21:31:15 -0700, "Michael Pardee"

I really wonder how much better a 4 would be IF one drives the V6 conservatively. With the ability to switch to three cylinders and shut down at idle, I bet that you would get very close to the same mpg if you drive both cars gently. OTOH, if you can't control your right foot, the V6 will cost more at the pump. No free lunch.
I am glad that Honda is experimenting with performance hybrids. I kind of wish they would put it on the Civic Si/RSX-S class of cars. I think that would be a better application.
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of the penalty of a larger engine comes from too little manifold pressure most of the time.
Hybrids really won't get respect until they provide better performance than conventional power trains. The sooner the better, I say.
Mike
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The Accord V6 Hybrid performs BETTER than the Accord V6 ICE. Look it up. Honda also has an experimental hydrogen car being tested by a family in California and Honda is bankrolling California in setting up a string of hydrogen stations for infrastructure.
None of this stuff happens overnight, folks. It takes long term planning and sometimes waiting for the technology to catch up with the concepts. Hydrogen cars are going to be so damn quite that they should furnish the DVD sound track from "The Fast and the Furious" for the performance models.
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Alan Browne wrote:

sounds to me like they wanted to see what would happen if the technology is used merely for extra power. its nothing theyre going to lose the farm over if it never catches on, like the 4 wheel steering prelude.
merely a technological exercise. for people that want economy, theres the natural gas civic GX, and the civic hybrid.
mebbe a stripped down 4-door accord with a 4 cylinder engine is in the works?
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