'88 Civic starting problem

If it can't pull any liquid in, there's nothing to offer resistance to the pump, is tehre?

Besides, the pump is out now, and the intake filter is clean.

Well, anyone who cares to speculate wildly and make fools of themselves are welcome to do so... :)

Buddy picked up another fuel pump from an '89 Civic but it proved to not fit the tank - the assembly projects straight down from the mounting plate, rather than on an angle like the one that came out, and hits the bottom of the tank. Back to the wrecker...

Okay, quick update... new fuel pump in, took care of the voltage drop problem... now we're getting an ALMOST-start. It cranks, it tries to catch, it won't quite take off.

ECU gives a code 16 ("Fuel Injector System: defective circuit or unplugged / defective fuel injector".)

Both injectors appear to work when independently powered. Both injectors seem to click while cranking. Looking down the TB throat, there's definitely gas being fed in from the main injector - hard to tell if the aux injector is doing anything. Holding the choke open manually helps a bit, but it still won't quite "catch".

Lots of spark on all cylinders... firing order is correct as far as I've been able to determine without having found the EXACT manual for this specific car (1-3-4-2 clockwise from the bottom-left when looking straight at the top of the distributor cap). Getting regular "puffs" from the exhaust so there seems to be steady compression from all cylinders.

Odd thing is, the plugs appear dry when I pull them out, so they're either firing or not getting any air/fuel mix, which doesn't make any sense unless the intake valves aren't working... and if that was the case I'd think I wouldn't get the "puffs" out the exhaust, if it wasn't drawing in any air.

So near, yet so far away... *sigh*

Matt I> > Matt Ion wrote in

snipped-for-privacy@moltenimage.com wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com:

Wanna take a second look at that Main Relay?

yeah, no kidding...

Already did. All working fine. Came out of another working Civic, in fact.

Like I said, the injectors ARE working, they ARE spraying fuel (at least, the main injector is).

Do you have anything useful to add, or are you just here to be a nob?

Matt Ion wrote in news:mJaGg.440318$IK3.223342@pd7tw1no:

So you've for sure got spark, for sure the igniton timing is correct, and for sure the ECU is driving the injectors correctly now?

Does the car start with a shot of ether?

A code 16 sometimes does actually mean a defective injector.

Heheheh, funny story...

Wanted to try that, but buddy didn't have any in the shop, and at that point we didn't have time to go pick some up.

That's what I figured, but they seemed to bench-test fine.

Anyway... buddy just called, he got it going: new plugs and a fresh battery and it fired right up. Apparently the Bosch Platinums that came in the thing were bunk, despite showing good soild spark when tested outside the engine(???).

Would be interesting to see if the ECU is still giving an error code. I'm wondering if it might have been stored from when the bad fuel pump was still in; I can see how the pump dragging down the voltage could affect injector operation, since all three are on the same circuit off the main relay, and the ECU might read the lack of input signal from the injectors as a "bad" unit(s). Or it may have even stored that code from when we tested the injector wiring with them disconnected? How long does the ECU hold codes?

So, another mystery solved... once again, I thank you all for your assistance, especially the masterful TeGGeR :)

So, once again Bosch does it again.

JT

Someone ought to compile statistics on how many times non-OEM plugs have been reported here to be behind starting/running problems. It might make the case easier to argue.

Once again, another simple solution behind a major problem, too.

Unfortunately, the Bosch reputation (regarding sparkplugs) ranks below that of Champion, a brand that I have avoided for many years.

I always use AC, MOPAR etc in my vintage cars.

Regarding modern tin, Bosch plugs fail easily. Let 'em get wet once, just toss 'em and start over again hopefully selecting another brand.

No Bosch for this guy (well, their wiper motors are ok..)

JT

Grumpy AuContraire wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@GrumpyvilleNOT.com:

I put a set of Bosch Platinum-2 plugs in my 94 GSR at ~57,000mi,and it starts and runs fine.It's been about 2 months now. The old plugs looked OK.

How can new spark plugs be "bunk"? Were those the plugs that were in there when he acquired the car? Maybe old plugs,or gaps boogered? Maybe grease on the insulator?

Matt Ion wrote in news:yXsGg.448328$IK3.118934@pd7tw1no:

Did they show a purply-blue spark when tested out of the engine? That's the key. If, in a dark garage (or at night), the color is anything but purply- blue, then it's weak. And whay is it weak, well, it appears to depend on a number of factors.

Good question. It's a certain number of startups, but I don't know the number.

Thanks for the attribution, but I think you and your friend pretty much solved this one on your own.

You also appear to have had multiple problems, some of which exacerbated the effects of others. This makes remote troubleshooting difficult.

This thread (and the issues it has highlighted) has given me a couple of more ideas for the "start problems" page, which is in the middle of an extensive rewrite.

They were the plugs that were already in the original engine, which HAD been running before we took it out. They were nice and clean and like I said, "bench-tested" fine. The plugs that came in the replacement engine were extremely fouled, which is why we swapped them out in the first place.

It was a nice thick blue spark visible even outside in the bright daylight (but still under the shadow of the hood).

Well, if nothing else, the link you provided to that schematic was key :)

Heh... it makes local troublshooting difficult too! But I know what you mean, a lot of times when you're there in front of it, you may see or hear or notice something else that gives a clue you won't get remotely. I have the same problem all the time doing remote (phone/IM/email) computer support - something that may take an hour on the phone could be figured out in 5 minutes sitting at the machine.

Cool.

Sorry, but I've seen numerous Bosch (plug) horror stories in a variety of makes/models of vehicles.

JT

Matt Ion wrote in news:yjHGg.440800$iF6.195632@pd7tw2no:

So,the "new" plugs got fouled,too. Not the plugs fault.

I've been running Platinum 2's in my '87 Accord for over a year now without a problem of a need for a cleaning - last time I checked them, they still looked near-new. *shrug*