92 Civic Won't Fire Plugs

You seem to be unaware that your description of the problem is all over the place.

You just said in your previous post:

" The service manager said once the car wouldn't start then their tech would be able to diagnose the problem in less than an hour. They've had it for a week."

That makes it pretty clear the car is starting just fine for the dealer and they have never been able to reproduce the problem you were having. So there is no way the dealer knows that the problem is "the car won't fire the plugs" as you claim.

Trust me. If you say the car won't start because the passenger door window won't roll down, you are going to get some people giving you advice on how to get the window to roll down. That sort of advice isn't going to help you solve your problem.

-jim

JD wrote in news:uv2dnWuOBb-J967RnZ2dnUVZ snipped-for-privacy@posted.grandecom:

This sounds very much like a dying coil, especially if accompanied by lack of a Check-Engine-light illumination.

It is NOT possible to reliably diagnose a bad coil with a multimeter! If in doubt, pull a coil from a wreck for about $10. At least that way your experiment comes on-the-cheap.

JD wrote in news:8OednQWQMLjm867RnZ2dnUVZ snipped-for-privacy@posted.grandecom:

The problem started when you brought the car to a garage that is unfamiliar with older Hondas.

Dealers are fantastic for lots of stuff, but not for problems that involve electronics that their techs haven't seen in 15 years. Remember that 99% of the work done by dealer techs involves cars much less than ten-years-old. It takes a, rare, exceptionally intelligent and interested tech to diagnose a car as old as yours. This is where good independents are worth their weight in gold: /They're/ usually the ones that know the old systems best.

You trimmed out part of my reply.

The problem is intermittent. It doesn't happen all the time but it is now happening at the dealer. They have been able to reproduce the problem but they don't have a solution. That's why I'm here.

How about you just butt out if you can't help? I didn't say the car wouldn't start because the passenger door window is down. That would be stupid. Roll the window up. 8-)

I've met the tech and he's an older guy. He's familiar with older Honda's. He's been doing this for over 20 years. I've talked with other independent techs and I chose this dealer and this tech over them.

I agree with you that it has something to do with the distributor.

I appreciate all your help and if they can fix this I'll be back to tell you what it was.

I'm one of those people that doesn't work on cars. I was a advertising photographer for 20+ years. I can photograph a car and I can drive a car like a bat out of Hell but I couldn't pull a coil from a wreck unless you wanted a photograph of it. 8-)

You're giving me more options than the dealer. I'll let you know if they can figure it out with the added information I'm providing from your replies.

It sounded like they have no solution because the technician has never seen the problem.

You might as well have said that. It would get you just as far.....

Shoulda, coulda, woulda. Just as fart.... 8-)

JD wrote in news:TrKdnRiyEP6mQa7RnZ2dnUVZ snipped-for-privacy@posted.grandecom:

That would be nice. If I'm wrong, I want to know, and to know /why/. Little learning is accomplished in the absence of feedback.

The service manager called today and they have replaced the igniter and the coil in the distributor. And they replaced the main relay.

The car still won't start.

Service tech wants to do more diagnostics, they figure about $300 for that but he's thinking it is a failure of the PCM which can cost anywhere from $600 to $900. The service manager will have a price for that tomorrow.

The tech is supposed to call me tomorrow and give me a more technical review of his diagnosis to this point. He's not getting correct voltages at certain places(?) which is why he needs more diagnostic time.

I don't know if I mentioned this before but when they rebuilt the distributor, the tech said there was something behind the glove box that he had to reset before he installed the rebuilt distributor. The distributor has to be placed back into the engine with the engine set with the first cylinder in a certain place.

Is the PCM located behind the glove box?

The only other work they have done on the car is to replace the timing belt and the belts and that oil switch I talked about earlier.

I see you reply quite a bit in this newsgroup and you really are helpful so *help!* 8-)

One bright spot to all this, they are *not* charging me anything at this point. All the parts and time are free because the service manager wanted to eliminate any problems caused by their rebuild of the distributor.

I'm hesitant to spend that much money on such an old car but I've got about $15K in it including the purchase price and all the repairs up to this time. My concern is the car is going to continue to decline because it's so old. I only drive about 100 miles a month but I've got to have a reliable automobile. I guess everybody wants that.

So I fix it and trade it in for a Mazda CX9. Any chance you know about Mazdas?

JD wrote in news:kO2dnQfkWN61gqjRnZ2dnUVZ snipped-for-privacy@posted.grandecom:

It's not a "PCM", it's an "ECU". This IS important!

Here is the correct behavior of the Check Engine light ( I hope you are reading this carefully):

1) Turn the key to "II"", CEL illuminates, and a click is heard from under the dash. 2) Two seconds later, the CEL goes off and STAYS OFF thereafter. A SECOND click is heard. 3) Turn the key to "III". As the starter engages, a THIRD click is heard from under the dash.

Does the above sequence occur ***EXACTLY***, or is there ***ANY*** sort of deviation from the sequence, ***no matter how minor***?

Somebody needs to pull the ECU and inspect it for corrosion and leaking caps.

My recommendation? Leave the old heap for people like me, who /like/ wading through old-car problems, and have some idea what causes those problems. Cut your losses; dump it and buy the Mazda.

Mazdas are good cars. You will like your new CX9. Plus it will smell nice inside and have an iPod port.

if you're considering disposal, where are you located? a 92 civic hatch with only 40k is /definitely/ interesting.

I'm located in west Texas. If the sob would start it's a sweet ride. Like a little sport car with a hatch.

If the tech calls tomorrow I'll ask if it's a PCM or ECU. And then ask about the process you describe.

Are you going to know this much about my Mazda?

I'll let you know what the tech says.

you don't need to tell me dude - i /love/ those things. nearly laughed my organs off the other day buying some lumber. myself and a contractor were checking out some 8' pieces of studding, and found ourselves parked next to each other. he gave me one of those sneers to the effect of "how are you going to get it in that little thing?". he was still trying to tie down the overhang on his load as i was driving off with mine, with the hatch fully shut. hatchbacks - the most awesomely versatile vehicle format ever. combine that with honda reliability, comfort and 4-wheel wishbone suspension? it'll be a /long/ time before i give mine up.

while it's almost impossible to help you through a diagnosis if you don't have physical possession of the vehicle, it would be great to help you keep such a low mileage vehicle on the road. trouble-shooting the engine electrics is relatively straight forward. even in the [highly unlikely] event of it being a dead ecu, they're abundant and cheap in the nation's junkyards, so replacement will be only $30 - $60.

I don't really do auto repairs. I can take something apart and put it back together but I'll have some extra parts. Oh, the wishbone suspension. That's the ride part.

JD wrote in news:lI6dnQ_RRr4ryqjRnZ2dnUVZ snipped-for-privacy@posted.grandecom:

Honda originally called their engine computers "ECU" ("Electronic Control Unit"). With the advent of OBD-II in 1995, the name changed to "ECM" ("Engine Control Module").

"PCM" means "Powertrain Control Module". It's a fairly new device that combines the engine controller with the transmission controller. Your Civic's engine computer is a standalone (does not control the tranny), so it can't be a PCM.

Nope. All I know in any detail is Hondas, and even then just the Civic- based ones.

Yes that is obvious, but that hasn't stopped you from telling the dealer how to fix your car. In all likelihood your problem has nothing to do with the ignition/distributer/sparkplugs nor firing. Probably, the fuel pump isn't kicking on. That would have been something easy to determine when the car was doing its no start thing.

I thought it was because the window was rolled down?