92 Civic Won't Fire Plugs

Page 2 of 3  
The local Honda dealer replaced the rotor head assembly, the distributor housing and cap assembly when they rebuilt the distributor. I'll ask them about the pickup and coil unless those are part of the above items.
waybel wrote:

--
JD..

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On 07/03/2010 07:11 PM, JD wrote:

do you have a large heavy key ring? it is common for keys with lots of junk attached to not return fully to the "run" position after starting. and in that case, you will quickly burn out the ignition switch contactors. separate your car keys from all the rest and keep them with just a lightweight tag, and make sure you turn the key back to the "notchy center" of the "run" position after starting.

do you know this? or are you saying this because the car doesn't start?

without proper diagnosis, you can't say this. what did you do to test?

which relays?. check: http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/mainrelayoperation/badmainrelay.html
bad relays are more commonly seen in hot weather, so it's a seasonally more likely cause.

--
nomina rutrum rutrum

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
jim beam wrote:

The key was on a ring by itself attached to an old hotel key fob. Not heavy at all.

That was a guess on my part but the local Honda dealer has confirmed this. Sometimes, the engine will turn but there is no power to the plugs. They said it may be a switch(?) in the distributor.

Car never had this problem until after the distributor was rebuilt. I'm just working my way backwards to when the problem started.

The service manager said the tech replaced the main relay but it did not solve the problem. Looking at the above page, I'm surprised their replacement main replay didn't help. The car did die on my once but started right back up. Once I got it home it wouldn't start. When the tow truck got here it would start. Towed it to the local Honda dealer and it wouldn't start. They tried it the next day and it did start. They replaced the ignition switch and a few days later it died while it was idling. They haven't been clear as to whether it now starts or doesn't but they have not been able to figure it out.

As I stated in my other reply to you, the problem was intermittent. It didn't seem to be dependent on the outside temperature. It sometimes would not start when it was cold outside, warm outside or hot outside. I live in west Texas so our seasons run from pretty cold to very hot.

--
JD..

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
JD wrote:

You seem to be unaware that your description of the problem is all over the place.
You just said in your previous post:
" The service manager said once the car wouldn't start then their tech would be able to diagnose the problem in less than an hour. They've had it for a week."
That makes it pretty clear the car is starting just fine for the dealer and they have never been able to reproduce the problem you were having. So there is no way the dealer knows that the problem is "the car won't fire the plugs" as you claim.
Trust me. If you say the car won't start because the passenger door window won't roll down, you are going to get some people giving you advice on how to get the window to roll down. That sort of advice isn't going to help you solve your problem.
-jim

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
jim wrote:

You trimmed out part of my reply.
The problem is intermittent. It doesn't happen all the time but it is now happening at the dealer. They have been able to reproduce the problem but they don't have a solution. That's why I'm here.
How about you just butt out if you can't help? I didn't say the car wouldn't start because the passenger door window is down. That would be stupid. Roll the window up. 8-)
--
JD..

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
JD wrote:

It sounded like they have no solution because the technician has never seen the problem.

You might as well have said that. It would get you just as far.....
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
jim wrote:

Shoulda, coulda, woulda. Just as fart.... 8-)
--
JD..

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

The problem started when you brought the car to a garage that is unfamiliar with older Hondas.
Dealers are fantastic for lots of stuff, but not for problems that involve electronics that their techs haven't seen in 15 years. Remember that 99% of the work done by dealer techs involves cars much less than ten-years-old. It takes a, rare, exceptionally intelligent and interested tech to diagnose a car as old as yours. This is where good independents are worth their weight in gold: /They're/ usually the ones that know the old systems best.
--
Tegger

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Tegger wrote:

I've met the tech and he's an older guy. He's familiar with older Honda's. He's been doing this for over 20 years. I've talked with other independent techs and I chose this dealer and this tech over them.
I agree with you that it has something to do with the distributor.
I appreciate all your help and if they can fix this I'll be back to tell you what it was.
--
JD..

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

That would be nice. If I'm wrong, I want to know, and to know /why/. Little learning is accomplished in the absence of feedback.
--
Tegger

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Tegger wrote:

The service manager called today and they have replaced the igniter and the coil in the distributor. And they replaced the main relay.
The car still won't start.
Service tech wants to do more diagnostics, they figure about $300 for that but he's thinking it is a failure of the PCM which can cost anywhere from $600 to $900. The service manager will have a price for that tomorrow.
The tech is supposed to call me tomorrow and give me a more technical review of his diagnosis to this point. He's not getting correct voltages at certain places(?) which is why he needs more diagnostic time.
I don't know if I mentioned this before but when they rebuilt the distributor, the tech said there was something behind the glove box that he had to reset before he installed the rebuilt distributor. The distributor has to be placed back into the engine with the engine set with the first cylinder in a certain place.
Is the PCM located behind the glove box?
The only other work they have done on the car is to replace the timing belt and the belts and that oil switch I talked about earlier.
I see you reply quite a bit in this newsgroup and you really are helpful so *help!* 8-)
One bright spot to all this, they are *not* charging me anything at this point. All the parts and time are free because the service manager wanted to eliminate any problems caused by their rebuild of the distributor.
I'm hesitant to spend that much money on such an old car but I've got about $15K in it including the purchase price and all the repairs up to this time. My concern is the car is going to continue to decline because it's so old. I only drive about 100 miles a month but I've got to have a reliable automobile. I guess everybody wants that.
So I fix it and trade it in for a Mazda CX9. Any chance you know about Mazdas?
--
JD..

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

It's not a "PCM", it's an "ECU". This IS important!
Here is the correct behavior of the Check Engine light ( I hope you are reading this carefully): 1) Turn the key to "II"", CEL illuminates, and a click is heard from under the dash. 2) Two seconds later, the CEL goes off and STAYS OFF thereafter. A SECOND click is heard. 3) Turn the key to "III". As the starter engages, a THIRD click is heard from under the dash.
Does the above sequence occur ***EXACTLY***, or is there ***ANY*** sort of deviation from the sequence, ***no matter how minor***?
Somebody needs to pull the ECU and inspect it for corrosion and leaking caps.

My recommendation? Leave the old heap for people like me, who /like/ wading through old-car problems, and have some idea what causes those problems. Cut your losses; dump it and buy the Mazda.
Mazdas are good cars. You will like your new CX9. Plus it will smell nice inside and have an iPod port.
--
Tegger

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Tegger wrote:

If the tech calls tomorrow I'll ask if it's a PCM or ECU. And then ask about the process you describe.
Are you going to know this much about my Mazda?
I'll let you know what the tech says.
--
JD..

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Honda originally called their engine computers "ECU" ("Electronic Control Unit"). With the advent of OBD-II in 1995, the name changed to "ECM" ("Engine Control Module").
"PCM" means "Powertrain Control Module". It's a fairly new device that combines the engine controller with the transmission controller. Your Civic's engine computer is a standalone (does not control the tranny), so it can't be a PCM.

Nope. All I know in any detail is Hondas, and even then just the Civic- based ones.
--
Tegger

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On 07/07/2010 05:44 PM, JD wrote:

if you're considering disposal, where are you located? a 92 civic hatch with only 40k is /definitely/ interesting.
--
nomina rutrum rutrum

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
jim beam wrote:

I'm located in west Texas. If the sob would start it's a sweet ride. Like a little sport car with a hatch.
--
JD..

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On 07/07/2010 09:41 PM, JD wrote:

you don't need to tell me dude - i /love/ those things. nearly laughed my organs off the other day buying some lumber. myself and a contractor were checking out some 8' pieces of studding, and found ourselves parked next to each other. he gave me one of those sneers to the effect of "how are you going to get it in that little thing?". he was still trying to tie down the overhang on his load as i was driving off with mine, with the hatch fully shut. hatchbacks - the most awesomely versatile vehicle format ever. combine that with honda reliability, comfort and 4-wheel wishbone suspension? it'll be a /long/ time before i give mine up.
while it's almost impossible to help you through a diagnosis if you don't have physical possession of the vehicle, it would be great to help you keep such a low mileage vehicle on the road. trouble-shooting the engine electrics is relatively straight forward. even in the [highly unlikely] event of it being a dead ecu, they're abundant and cheap in the nation's junkyards, so replacement will be only $30 - $60.
--
nomina rutrum rutrum

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
jim beam wrote:

I don't really do auto repairs. I can take something apart and put it back together but I'll have some extra parts. Oh, the wishbone suspension. That's the ride part.
--
JD..

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
JD wrote:

Yes that is obvious, but that hasn't stopped you from telling the dealer how to fix your car. In all likelihood your problem has nothing to do with the ignition/distributer/sparkplugs nor firing. Probably, the fuel pump isn't kicking on. That would have been something easy to determine when the car was doing its no start thing.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
jim wrote:

I thought it was because the window was rolled down?
--
JD..

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Related Threads

    Motorsforum.com is a website by car enthusiasts for car enthusiasts. It is not affiliated with any of the car or spare part manufacturers or car dealers discussed here. All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.