'93 civic failed emission or suspicious emision test ?

Need some help determining if emision failed due to real problem and how to fix

*OR* was this a suspect emission tester and i just wait for different tester ? what to do ?

I am original owner of '93 civic Si HB 205,450 miles.

I do most all basic maintenence (filters/oil/etc) and repairs (eg. brake pads/ radiator replace/master cylinder replace/ ignitor replace/ replace distributor, etc ) honda dealer gets the bigger invasive stuff like timing belt, water pumps, clutch ...

The car has passed emissions by no small margins till this year and it FAILED miserably ? *BUT* only on the 25/25 test ?

Only 5,400 highway miles were put on the car from 2008 test to

2009 test.

2009 numbers =========================== ...................25/25 test............50/15

----------------------................--------- HC ppm .....288.....................65 CO %..........9.38 **...............0.20 NOx ppm....345.....................255 RPM............2718..................1971 CO + CO2 %....18.3..............15.1

2008 numbers =========================== ....................25/25 test...........50/15

-------------------------.............--------- HC ppm .....73........................70 CO %..........0.22.....................0.23 NOx ppm...236......................212 RPM...........2100.....................1925 CO + CO2 % 15.1.................15.1

Ques 1: Does this test failure look like real (possible) numbers ? that is, how does it fail 25/25 ***SO *** bad and not the 50/15 ?

Ques 2: if these are real numbers then what repair am i looking to fix this ?

Ques 3: Can the tester muck up the test and get that 25/25 test failure ? Not that he wanted to muck it up but maybe a little incompetent because he had these several problems ...

- Could not get the tack sensor in the right place , kept moving it all around like on top dash , center dash, on mirror , under dash, on windshield, on the hood , under the hood ? could not seem to find a place that gave good tach readings and kept saying, "your RPM is bad"

- He tried the clip on tach wire but could not get the wire connected to machine correctly.

- at some point during testing he could not seem to get the gear shifted so he left it in 1st and ran the car up to about 20 miles per hour in 1st gear the car was running really loud so i peeked in at the tach which up around 5000-6000 yes that is 5K-6K and held it there for about 30 seconds waiting for the machine to do something ?

Anyways, i would appreciate some helpful advice on what to fix or do please

robb

Reply to
robb
Loading thread data ...

Sounds like you need to get it tested by a different tester. Incorrect rpm data and not shifting the gears will screw up the test easily.

Reply to
Steve W.

The CO is way high regardless of RPM. Something has forced the FI pig rich. Further diagnosis is next. HTH Ben

Reply to
ben91932

problem

[trim]

Incorrect

easily.

Thanks Steve, for the reply and advice.

robb

Reply to
robb

Thanks Ben, for the reply and help.

Would you not expect some scaling of failure into the 50/15 test considering the severity of failure in the 25/25 test ?

After researching some , would you expect a Oxygen Sensor malfunction or something else ?

Can the original O2 sensor last 18 yrs ? The O2 sensor is the original :}

Thanks again, robb

Reply to
robb

"robb" wrote in news:i6- dnX9UvptHpr3XnZ2dnUVZ snipped-for-privacy@earthlink.com:

O2 sensors are spec'd to last 60-100K miles. They can get "slow" before that,and affect emissions and mileage even sooner.

Google is your friend.

Reply to
Jim Yanik

the

mileage even

Thanks Jim, for the helpful info.

I say it is original. I think it is the original. Does honda service ever replace O2 sensor in any of there regular service intervals ? I do not remeber ever seeing the O2 sensor being replaced but i did take the car in for whatever the **BIG** service intervals were ( ? 90K / 120K / 150K ? the numbers escape my memory)

Oh well, time to start replacing stuff.

So, in other posts i read... Denso seems to make good O2 sensors ? Is that a good brand to look for ?

Thanks for any helpful opinions and advice,

robb

Reply to
robb

"robb" wrote in news:LKydnT1nJZ2AubzXnZ2dnUVZ snipped-for-privacy@earthlink.com:

Did you even bother to read Steve W's post?

There may be nothing at all wrong with your car, but there was LOTS wrong with the technician's actions durng the test.

Reply to
Tegger

i'm not sure i buy that - this guy's story doesn't add up. testing machines won't accept a test unless the test protocol is followed closely, and 2718rpm at 25mph is not first gear like the op alleges. the machine checks for rpm's and won't accept if not in range. and not only must they be in range, they must be relatively constant. if they're not constant, the machine extends the test until they are and held there for the requisite test duration.

bottom line - this is probably a valid test and a simple failure. given that the op hasn't changed the sensor in 18 years, he probably hasn't changed plugs or leads either - a much more likely cause of incomplete combustion and high readings.

Reply to
jim beam

regular

sensor

**BIG**

escape

was LOTS wrong

testing

followed

alleges.

and not

if

are and

failure. given

hasn't

incomplete

Hello OP here ... While i applaud your deductive reasoning on my story to keep me honest , the story is a truthful rendition of what occured durring the emission test.

the only thing i allege is what i saw, which was a big 20 something on the emission monitor and peeking at the tachometer that was in the car and seeing it hovering around 5-6k or there abouts for about 30 seconds (while the tester watched the monitor) and me realizing that for the 25/25 test it seems he never shifted out of first gear , next he ground the gears again a bit and managed to get it into to second for the next test.

I was not really paying attention to the testing until i heard the engine reving really high, i didn't remember that during any past test and when he slightly ground the gears i became more watchful and started adding up all the other stuff he did like move the tach sensor all around the car and the comment about the bad RPM made me wonder if the tester guy just flubbed my test or is it reallistic to think that 1 year and 5400 miles later my car has gone from clean to enviro-mean,

maybe the emmision machine was reading 2700 when he had it reved up to 5K ? i do not know but someone probably knows there are alot of experienced and smart people here.

anyways that seemed like alot of useless fill for my questions which were... can these emission tester guys muck up the test like that or do i really need to start looking for the problems and more importantly what to concentrate on ?

I do appreciate the help.

robb

Reply to
robb

no, he cannot f*ck up the test - the machine will not accept it. you need to concentrate on fixing the problem, not the blame. based on your response, that might be something you find hard to do.

Reply to
jim beam

regular

sensor

**BIG**

escape

LOTS wrong

Hello Tegger, yes i did read it. steve said it sounds like i need to find a new tester. Thats what i thought too but i do not think this was his first day and i do not remeber testers ever having trouble getting a good tach reading in the past. They always just plopped that paddle up on the dash and the test done in about 10 minutes.

Then with (Ben and Jim) i have two strikes against the car and

1/2 strike on my story.

I did not know it was standard practice to replace the O2 sensor every ~80K ? i know i have never done it.

I can and will test it (as i can) to see if it is suspect but according to those O2 comments and even some of your own posts about O2 sensors ... the O2 should probably be replaced ?

Anyways what happens if you get failed twice ? Right now i have to show proof of work done to get it tested again for free ? other wise i am out $50.

thanks for all the helpful advice, robb

Reply to
robb

what is smarter?

  1. doing the same thing you did before, and expecting a different result [retesting]? or

  1. fixing the freakin' car, /then/ retesting???

denial will only get you so far dude. it certainly won't save you money or stop wasting electron on usenet!

Reply to
jim beam

I think he has reasonable concerns that the test was not done correctly and that there may not be a problem at all with the car.

The *correct* answer, instead of shotgunning the car with parts when it may or may not actually need them, is to take the car to a shop with its own exhaust gas analyzer, NOT an emissions test station, and find out if there is actually a problem.

nate

Reply to
Nate Nagel

snip

Pay no heed to beam as he resides in his "special" corner of the world having little to do with the rest of us free thinkers.

I agree that the test may have been botched. Beam's assertion that the "machine" is infallible is, well, ah... fallible.

BTW, how's JP doing these days?

JT

Reply to
Grumpy AuContraire

jim beam wrote in news:YZidnfwOFeDqybzXnZ2dnUVZ snipped-for-privacy@speakeasy.net:

I have seen retests give significantly different numbers when absolutely nothing was done to the car in between.

Paying for a re-test is cheaper than a new oxygen sensor. To me it's worth the gamble.

Reply to
Tegger

for sure, i'd make sure i took it to a "test only" station, but when the op "witnesses" a number of things that are clearly wrong:

"i do not remeber testers ever having trouble getting a good tach reading in the past. They always just plopped that paddle up on the dash"

"RPM............2718" vs. "i peeked in at the tach which up around

5000-6000"

i seriously doubt his story.

Reply to
jim beam

you're a "free thinker"??? on reflection, i suspect you probably are!

Reply to
jim beam

he's telling us a bunch of stuff which is inconsistent from post to post, and which does not accord with the facts.

if he can't do the usual pre-test prep, yes.

Reply to
jim beam

What "facts"? Other than what he has related here, you don't actually know any "facts" to be challenging.

Once again, if Beam feels the least bit challenged, the accusations of stupidity directed toward everyone and anyone start flying. Best bet is to just kill-file him. Life is too short.

Reply to
E. Meyer

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