'93 civic just died while driving ? some ideas please ?

damn beam jinxed my car :P
Ok, forget the emissions for now... the damn car died on me today.
'93 Civic Si , manual transmission.
I was sitting at a stop light. Light goes green and i try to go.
The car stumbles a bit like trying to start from dead stop in second gear. I do a quick shift check to first gear (it was in first). I rev it a bit and then get going. About 50 ft after that turn it justs bogs out (buuuuuhhhhhhh).
I pushed clutch and step on gas nothing... its dead... no tach, alot of idiot lights on (but i can't remember which) so i coast into parking lot. I try to re-start. The engine is turning over nicely but no hint of starting , no coughing, no sputtering or any signs of firing. So i check the security dongle and watch all the lights.
The dash lights behave as usuall, they light up i get some beeps (6 or 8) and all the lights go off.
All the big fuses under the hood look fine.
The ignitor failed on me a couple of years ago with a similar death but i was on the highway going 60 and i had more time to just coast along and watch what was going on. I replace the ignitor with Honda ignitor then.
I checked (pulled and opened) the Main Relay at that time to check for that old style relay that required re-soldering but the inside of mine did not look like those that needed the re-solder job so i presumed it was ok.
So what is run down. Check for fire? then do an ignitor check if no fire ?
is there a quick outline on how to narrow this problem down.
thanks for any helpful advice ,
robb













Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
robb wrote:

yeah, google this group. and check tegger.com's faq's. difficulty getting a tach reading on your emissions test should give you a clue.



Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

[trim]
difficulty
clue.
Thanks Jim,
don't tell me you guys might have predicted this
robb







Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
robb wrote:

Hmm, When did you have the timing belt replaced?



Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

go.
in
[trim]
Thanks Tony, *but please* let me hope not, it is an interference engine i believe. It has been replaced and doesn't have the miles but it may have the years (maybe 50K and 7-8-9 years) what are you thinking ? slipped some cogs ? I do not think it is broken i would have heard some terrible noises ? correct ?
i hope it is something more benign from researching jim's suggestion robb






Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Miles or years, miles or years. My 96 Civic had its belt replaced at about 65K, but 8 years.

Yeah. If it's turning over, you might try smelling for gas out the exhaust pipe. Since it isn't firing, you should be getting some raw gas. None? Fuel pump. Smells? Look at your distributor. As in the gear. I can't remember back that far, does that car have an ignition system hooked up to the cam?

You know, I had a friend say something about "hoping it's something benign". She's now a three year survivor.

--

- dillon I am not invalid

Approximately 75,000 years ago, the supervolcano Toba
  Click to see the full signature.







Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

When you crank and the car won't start, is the tach needle dead-still, or does it jiggle ever so slightly?
Is this an OEM tach or an aftermarket add-on?
--
Tegger

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
  Click to see the full signature.



Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

go.
in
dead-still, or

Thanks for help Tegger,
To answer your questions i could not see any quivering in the tach meter needle . It is the OEM (came with the car when i purchased new) tachometer.
I downloaded your FAQ "cars goes chugga-chugga but no fire or catch" troubleshooting guide and was able to solve the problem.
have a guess ? solution in next post
Thanks for the help, robb










Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

as long as you had the relay out,you should have resoldered it. Then you would KNOW it's not a problem.
as others have posted,tegger's site is excellent.
--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
  Click to see the full signature.



Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

the
re-solder
[trimed]
I was planning to resolder the joints (when i removed) but if i recall there were two or three versions of the Main Relay and only one was consistently suspect. And my recollection was that the solder joints in the bad relay (crack or not) looked bad or cold and should be redone.
My relay had a very different looking circuit board than the suspicious one and the solder joints looked so good that any resoldering would only have made them worse espeacially from an amateur solderer like me.
I used tegger's site to solve the trouble, do you have a guess ? solution in next post
thanks robb








Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

after
beeps
Thanks to all (tegger, ben, jim b, jim Y, tony) for helping,
jim beam gets a (A+ for helping and a B- for action) he could have predicted this failure if he believed my emissions story.
So, I downloaded tegger's troubleshooting guide and `was able to solve the problem in short order.
Did all the easy tests first.
ECU check engine code (nothing). Check timing belt breakage. (ok) Main Relay test. (3 clicks) Listen for fuel pump pressurize. (sounds good) Test the spark generation ......
Pulled wire and put an old plug in and grounded to engine. Can't see or hear a spark ( but it is 12 noon super bright and hot out). Try to get some darkness no luck. So what the hell i bump fingers across the plug end while grounding that same hand and get a tingle. Lay fingers across plug and ground that hand and only get a tingle. Weak spark ?
Weak spark = bad coil ? yes ?
Well i check the resistance on the wires (16K ohms) and the rotor (no resistance). So i test coil and get 8K ohms across secondary winding (should be 13-19 K ohms ) I clean deposits off cap terminals and rotor edge re-install and same problem.
SOLUTION: Replace coil and it fires right up.
I guess the emmisions test problem was in the midst of the coil weakening failing ?
QUESTION : Is there any thing else that needs to be checked that might have caused the coil to fail ??
thanks again to all the helpers, robb















Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

That could do it,yes. missing plugs will not burn the fuel/air mixture,and increases the hydrocarbon output.The cat may not handle it all.

plug wires insulation breaking down will shorten a coil's life. Also a worn dist.cap/rotor. I don't recall if you had already replaced those.
Good that you found the problem and fixed it! Happy motoring!
--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
  Click to see the full signature.





Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
<snip>

This is why I asked about the tach needle. You reported a dead-still needle when cranking, which is usually the igniter. I guess there are exceptions to that rule.

It's possible, yes. HCs are just raw gas. Poor spark will result in raw gas getting dumped into the exhaust for the test machine to find.

What Jim Yanik said.
--
Tegger

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
  Click to see the full signature.







Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Related Threads

    Motorsforum.com is a website by car enthusiasts for car enthusiasts. It is not affiliated with any of the car or spare part manufacturers or car dealers discussed here. All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.