a little off for some groups: 1989 Mazda 626 clacking from top of engine

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I'm crossing this to Honda and Toyota because there are some sharp individuals in these groups, and also in the Ford group since this is a common engine among Fords, IIRC.
The problem: 1989 Mazda 626. Over the course of the winter, occasionally on cold days the engine would clack from just under the valve cover. Since I seem to recall seeing somewhere that this engine has hydraulic lifters of some sort, it just seemed that allowing the engine to warm and circulate oil would cause this to stop as the lifters (or whatever!) responded to the rise in oil pressure. It always worked, and when it didn't, I would check the oil, add 2/3 3/4 of a quart, and be done with it.
Saturday the oil was down less than 1/4 from the Full on the dipstick. Since it's getting an oil change in about 500 miles, I let it go.
This morning I had to make a trip about 30-35 miles one way. When I returned home I noticed the engine was making a louder noise than usual, and when I went to investigate it was the clacking noise from under the Valver Cover. I shut the car off and let it cool.
Before I left the house later, I added 2/3 of a quart of Castrol Synthetic (the closest bottle of oil I had) and started it. I let it run for a while but the clacking continued. I added about 1/3 quart of Marvel Mystery and let it run till warm and the noise never went away. After parking the car for about 2.5 hours, when I started it up the clacking was still there. I drove home still clacking, but quieter.
The partiulars: this is the 2.0L 12-vavle engine, OHC, new timing belt <3,000 miles ago, fuel injected. It's going to get parked in 1-3 weeks when I take my Supra out of winter storage. Any ideas about what it is or what I should look for? If I find the Haynes I will be able to answer more questions concerning the motor. It looks good and runs great, even with the clacking.
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Collapsed lifter?
--

Ray O
(correct punctuation to reply)
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On Tue, 03 Apr 2007 00:11:08 -0500, Ray O wrote:

Um, that would be my guess, if I knew what it meant...for sure...I think...
;)
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On Tue, 03 Apr 2007 00:11:08 -0500, Ray O wrote:

From a 'forum':
Possibly a sticky or collapsed lifter. A bent pushrod (or one that's a little short) also comes to mind as a possibility. A worn rocker or rocker fulcrum will also cause problems like this.
If the motor is sitting there running like a watch other than the light ticking, I'd put some Rislone in it to help loosen up any deposits and drive it around a little....like slowly around the block. Then swap in some fresh oil (5W-30 Mobil 1 synthetic seems to clean up old deposits very well for me) and drive it briskly (don't beat the snot out of it at valve float but don't drive it like grandma does either) and drive it often as possible. Swap the oil out at short intervals (500-1000 miles) for a few thousand miles and see if that quiets things down. It'll either get better with time (a sticky lifter) or stay the same (or get worse) which could be a slightly collapsed lifter or bent pushrod.
If it doesn't improve with good oil and drive time then it may have to come apart to be inspected. If it gets any worse that a light tapping and/or if the vaccum gauge starts dancing with the tick or if you start getting a characteristic 'fhtup' out of one end or the other them stop the motor and pull it down for inspection.
_______________________________
This doesn't sound like fun. I use Marvel Mystery Oil all the time (since I got it) so I don't expect it's sludge. Don't tell me my $600 bargain just STB...
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Hachiroku $B%O%A%m%/ wrote:

well, it wouldn't clack if there wasn't something wrong! either the cam is damaged or a lifter is leaking badly. you need to open up and investigate. magic 8-ball says: "you will visit a junk yard next weekend".
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On Mon, 02 Apr 2007 22:18:56 -0700, jim beam wrote:

LOL! I looked around on the Web, and I guess the lifters collapsing are fairy common, and they're $11 each at AutoZone.
Now, I just need to figure out how to replace them!
And, it's a 2.2L, not 2.0. I think it was used in the Escort, also.
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On 4/2/07 9:27 PM, in article JYiQh.8917$IY4.8369@trndny03, "Hachiroku $B%O%A%m(B

I used to have a '90 Mazda B2200 pickup. There was an acknowledged problem with the engine in those that the oil ports to the valve hydraulics were too small. It started making the noise at startup at about 30k miles. Switching it to Mobil 1 5w-30 fixed the problem for the remaining 10 years that I owned it.
IIRC thicker oils made the problem worse, and for some reason, that engine absolutely hated Castrol synthetic - mileage dropped and it would use a quart/1000 miles with Castrol, but never used a drop with any other brand of oil.
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On Tue, 03 Apr 2007 12:46:23 +0000, E Meyer wrote:

I wonder if flushing and refilling with lighter weight oil will prevent me from having to rip out the Lash Adjusters...
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Hachiroku $B%O%A%m%/ wrote:

try it. i have no idea what that mystery oil stuff is, but there's a reason motor manufacturers say not to use additives like that...
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On Tue, 03 Apr 2007 19:35:34 -0700, jim beam wrote:

Never tried Marvel Mystery Oil?! I started using it in 1978 on a '78 Corolla. Engine went about 65,000 miles...then a guy in a Mustang pulled right out in front of me!
However, it's replacement went 6 years and 244,000 miles, and IT'S replacement went 20 years and 259,000 miles...and more if I ever fix the rust...
The 1.8 in the '80 Corolla and the 1.6 in the '85 Corolla GTS both hold 4 quarts with filter. I put in 3.5 quarts of Castrol GTX 10W-30 or 40, and 1 quart of MMO. No oil problems at all!
It's a very light oil, red in color and smells a bit funky, but with returns like that I'm a believer! It's kind of like ATF. I add it to everything now...snowblowers, lawnmowers, etc. When I park my power equipment for the summer/winter, I spray a little into the spark plug hole to keep the cylinders and valves from rusting.
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Hachiroku $B%O%A%m%/ wrote:

so what's in it? if you don't know, you're out of your mind using it.
and a corolla engine will do 259,000 miles on walmart house brand oil, let alone gtx. ascribing longevity to something on which you have no testing, no controls and which is proven unnecessary is quite ridiculous.
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On Tue, 03 Apr 2007 20:35:22 -0700, jim beam wrote:

That's OK. It works for me! Last compression check I did, all the cylinders were between 120-125 PSI. Considering that's what they were in 1991 when the car was six years old, I'd say that's pretty good.
There are a lot of people who use MMO regularly, and most of them are driving high-mileage vehicles, Japanese or not. (One I know has an '88 Chevy truck with 350,000 miles on it, and has never had to mess with the engine)
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Hachiroku $B%O%A%m%/ wrote:

i'll ask again, do you know what's in it?
now read this: http://skepdic.com/slick50.html
in your case, excess solvent will /increase/ metal to metal contact. if you get decent mileage and compression, that's a testament to the quality of toyota motors and castrol oil, /not/ your massively over-priced xylene solvent.
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On Wed, 04 Apr 2007 20:45:55 -0700, jim beam wrote:

And here's one for you:
http://blog.modernmechanix.com/2006/04/04/marvel-mystery-oil /
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Hachiroku $B%O%A%m%/ wrote:

am i missing something? how does vintage poster art /not/ make your over-paying for wear-increasing solvents proof of gullibility?
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On Wed, 04 Apr 2007 21:25:59 -0700, jim beam wrote:

I just thought you'd like the association with what looks like an Atomic Bomb...
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On Wed, 04 Apr 2007 20:45:55 -0700, jim beam wrote:

I put what I had left of a Qt of MMO in the Mazda...after a 20 minute drive the clacking was gone. Sure beats ripping the Valve Cover off, taking out the rocker shafts and replacing the HLA's!
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I suspect it's a temporary fix, that wear will cause the problem to return. Sometimes a few months' reprieve is a very useful thing. If you are far from home on vacation or in the middle of rotten temperatures it is mighty attractive.
I don't know how Marvel Mystery Oil changes the operation of oil for bearings and such though.
Mike
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On Thu, 05 Apr 2007 15:13:10 -0700, Michael Pardee wrote:

Me either, but I've had a couple of high mileage engines using Castrol and MMO mixed.
As long as it lasts until I get the Supra on the road and the Mazda parked, I'll open the valve cover and have a look. It doesn't look all that tough.
I have heard of this (MMO or ATF) solving the problem long term, though.
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Hachiroku ハチロク wrote:

If a lifter begins to make noise, two possibilities are lack of oil pressure (unlikely) or excessive wear of the component itself (likely)
Plan on replacing 'em all.
JT
(Who owns nothing with hydraulic lifters!)
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