All the oil ran out of my new 2007 CR-V !!

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Chuck Connell wrote:


The install new engines in the factory all the time.
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On Fri, 15 Dec 2006 01:55:12 +0000, L Alpert wrote:

The dealer doesn't work at the factory, and the factory uses machinery for most of the work.
But installing an engine should be doable by any competent mechanic. It takes time and work, but it isn't something new to the automotive world.
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Based on the fact that I drove the car for 4-5 days, with the engine dry (or nearly dry) of oil, I am asking Honda for a new car or factory-new engine. Here is the letter I just faxed to the dealer....
+++++++++++++++++++++
Notes about 2007 CR-V Oil Loss December 12, 2006 Chuck Connell, 781-939-0505 Car purchased from Herb Chambers Honda
Driving home from work last night, about 2-3 miles from home, I thought I saw a light flicker on the dashboard. I looked, but saw nothing. I continued to drive. I saw another flicker, looked again, and just saw the oil light go out. I continued to drive. The light came on again, and then went off. I was now about one mile from home. I continued home, and checked the dip stick as soon as I got there. It was hard to read in the dark, and I had just stopped the engine, but it appeared low. I added a quart of oil.
I drove my daughter to dance class (5 miles total) without the oil light coming on. I checked the dipstick when I got home anyway. It appeared low, so I added another quart of oil and parked the car for the night.
This morning, I checked the dipstick. The oil was completely off the stick, or perhaps just a drop at the bottom. I added two quarts, bringing the oil level up to full (2nd hole in the stick). The crankcase had been down four quarts of oil. I drove directly to the dealer, about 6 miles.
Looking back, the leak started at least 5 days earlier.
- There are two large oil spots in my driveway. One where the CRV was parked, and another at the entrance to the driveway. I saw both of these over the previous weekend, but did not imagine they were from my new car. The first one, I assumed was from my 10-year-old Saturn which had a large transmission leak a few months ago. The second one, I assumed was from another car that had visited our house or turned around in the driveway. The driveway is black and old, so it is not obvious when a new oil spot appears.
- There are two oil spots at my office parking lot, where I parked my CRV the previous week. I remember where I parked because I had backed my car in there, so that a glass company could easily fix the front windshield, which had been cracked by a stone.
I now realize that the engine was dry of oil for 4-5 days, or more. When I started the car those mornings, it started slowly, as if the battery were low. I thought, at the time, that this seemed strange. Why would a new battery be sluggish? But the car started, and ran fine, so I dismissed it. I now understand that the reason the battery seemed weak is because the engine was dry and not lubricated. This period covers at least 8-10 dry starts, because each day I started it again after work, after 9 hours of non-use.
-- END --
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<snip>
Chuck, while I sympathize with your problem and have been following this thread with interest, I must point up something nobody has as yet: It is poor procedure to keep changing the Subject line with each message. Some newsreaders have fits with changing Subject lines.
The subject line should stay the same throughout the thread unless the suject changes enough to send the thread off-topic, which this one has not.
--
Tegger

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
  Click to see the full signature.
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OK. Sorry. I am using a graphical reader, which displays the whole thread nicely indented as appropriate. So changing subject lines is helpful sometimes in that case.
Chuck

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The dealer (and Honda corporate) has come back with their latest offer... No new car, no new engine, but a 7 year / 100K warranty. I am thinking about it.... Comments?
Chuck

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If you are reasonably sure that it never actually ran bone dry, chances are that it really wasn't damaged. If they are offering to extend the bumper to bumper warranty and not just the engine internals, I would take the warranty, it would turn it into the cheapest to maintain car you could get.
I know, a lot of "if"s. You will need to decide based on how much damage, if any, you think was actually done to it.
On 12/14/06 2:35 PM, in article J9GdnZSV_Z6IKxzYnZ2dnUVZ snipped-for-privacy@conversent.net, "Chuck Connell"

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Can you compare the vehicle MPG before and after the incident? If the MPG drops, that would be an indication of increased friction due to damage. Or it could be colder weather and longer warm up times. Either way, it is a possible data point.
Paul. Phoenix, AZ

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month (the voice of sad experience!) I undertightened an oil filter when I was a kid and by the time the oil light came on - I was on the freeway - the damage was done. It was audible as a soft snare drum sound right away and progressed to a clear rod knock within a week or two. It seems the indium coating on the crank bearings is intolerant of being run dry :-(
The warranty sounds like a really good deal. If they replace the engine (or the car) and the tranny goes out at 70K miles without an extended warranty you are on your own. With the warranty, you are covered for engine damage and more. It's also a good deal for Honda, since it's "soft" money. Heck, at work we accepted 2 years of free tech support for a piece of equipment the mfr's contractor botched an upgrade on. A pretty good deal, since the support was worth $7500 per year! And it didn't cost the mfr any hard money. Life is good....
Mike
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Chuck Connell wrote:

Do you/did you plan to keep the car that long? I would maybe ask for 2 additional items - unlimited use of a comparable loaner car*, should the engine have a problem down the road when you are away from home or on a trip, and make the warranty transferrable to a future owner. Whatever you do, make dsure it is documented and you may want to have a lawyer look it over for you.
*By this I mean, another CRV or something larger, versus them giving you a clapped-out '93 Civic.
Dan D '07 Odyssey Slate Green Central NJ USA
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Yes, I have kept several cars for 10 years.
Chuck
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I just had new front axles and four Pirelli 400's put on my 10 year old Civic Coupe.
They will have to pry my cold dead hands off the wheel before I sell it!
--
- Slim


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I have decided to accept the engine repair and the warranty. Here's why...
- The warranty is a full 7y/100k, not just on the engine. It is the Honda Care plan and includes roadside assistance, lodging if I am away from home, repair at any US dealership. It is bumper to bumper, but I assume that does not include standard wear items, like tires and brake shoes. (They are sending me the full contract.)
- The crankcase capacity is actually 5.3q. I thought it was 4.3. So at its worst moment, my engine had 1.3q left in it.
- I added oil quickly (2 miles, low speed) after the light blinked on. So assuming the light is working properly, and warns of low oil pressure, the pressure was not low for very long. The light never came on steady.
- I work near the dealer, so it is easy for me to take the car in again. If the car really runs fine for 7 years, I guess it was OK.
On the other hand... I am disappointed in how the dealer (Herb Chambers, Burlington MA) responded to this. The General Manager tried to call me once, and left a message. But he never called back again, despite my 3-4 phone messages to him plus a fax. The dealer should have jumped on this problem and done anything reasonable to satisfy the customer. All my substantial conversations were with American Honda Corp, and they were very responsive.
Thanks to this list for all the input.
Chuck Connell http://www.chc-3.com -- My home page

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I think that you made out as well as can be expected. Any significant damage should be apparent well within the time and mileage. Plus you got a lot more perks with the extra coverage. MLD

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You're getting the best of both worlds and is exactly the best decision that you could have made.
I would monitor consumption closely for the next few months. Traditionally, Honda engines consume virtually no oil between changes. There is a caveat here in that Honda considers consumption of up to a quart every thousand miles "acceptable" but this same consumption rate is very high in comparison to the normal Honda engine.
JT
Chuck Connell wrote:

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Good idea. I will monitor both mpg (built in display) and oil use. I know what the previous mpg average was, as a basis for comparison.
Chuck
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Correction to below... The General Manager had called me again, and left another message. I did not know this at the time I typed the below. We talked on the phone for 10-15 minutes. He offered to replace the car via his dealership, if I detect any problems with the engine, even if American Honda does not. He gave me his cell number and told me to call if anything develops. So this made me feel somewhat better about the experience.
Chuck

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Chuck Connell wrote:

My gut hunch is you have no engine damage at all.. The reason I say that is you didn't take too long to deal with it, and if I remember right from your postings, you didn't drive too much with the light actually on. If the engine was so low as to really be a problem, you would almost certainly hear it. IE: noisy valves clacking, possible knocking, etc.. I don't think you noticed this, so I don't think it was ever totally out of oil. So I think most likely you didn't have any real damage, and with the warranty, you should be ok. If the engine did get messed up, it will already be sounding at least slightly different than it did before. If it still runs and sounds exactly the same as before, I wouldn't be too worried about it. MK
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snipped-for-privacy@wt.net wrote:

If the CR-V had run out of oil completely, OP would have noticed it. A few years back I had a Saab 9000 that the oil pump started to go. The sounds that came out of the engine before the pump kicked back on were unmistakable - metal grinding on metal. When I drained the oil after that, I couldn't believe how many metal shavings were in the oil - yikes! I got rid of that car - FAST.
Mike
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