Bad Timing Belt?

Hello,

The timing belt on my '95 Civic ESi (1.6L SOHC) is about 4 years old, and was used for less than 40K kms (25K miles). But I notice it had deep cracks on the outer (smooth) side, at each gap between the teeth. The cracks are mostly very straight, and so the belt looks "segmented". They're also deep, going about halfway into the belt's thickness.

I have a feeling this isn't normal. Is it? If it's really bad, how could it possibly have gotten this bad, when it's still relatively fresh and was installed by the Honda dealer? I would really like to prevent it next time.

Thanks in advance..

Reply to
sharx333
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Are you sure you're referring to the timing belt? Here's an illustrated index of the timing belt from the factory service manual.

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reason I have to ask is that I've never seen a timing belt cracked asbadly as you describe. If it was, then it would probably break in veryshort order and the car would no longer be running. Most timing belts failwell before then become cracked as you have described and that is afterthey've been in the car >90K miles though some do fail prematurely howeverthat's rare.

Eric

Reply to
Eric

Sure you don't mean one of the serpentine belts for the alternator, etc...?? Normally, the timing belt is covered and you can't see it. I would change any belt that was that bad, timing or serpentine... Slight cracks in a serpentine belt are ok, but if they are half way deep, I'd change it. That belt might run the water pump, "not sure on that model" and losing it is the last thing you want to do. Also, belts always fail at the worst possible time due to "Ruprects Law". MK

Reply to
nm5k

if that were my timing belt, i'd drop everything else i was doing and fix it immediately. seriously. sounds like the dealer either didn't change the belt at all or that it was installed too tight. whatever the reason, that is a very sick belt and cannot be trusted another inch.

Reply to
jim beam

I'm afraid that's exactly the belt I'm referring to. This model is a "domesticated" version of the EX, with basically the same engine (D16z6).

I wouldn't even have seen the cracks if the mechanic hadn't pointed it out when I was having the tires rotated. When I got home, I removed the valve cover and belt cover, and saw the cracks. So this is bad, huh? I wonder what could have caused it... I hear these things normally last a long time.

Thanks for the replies.

Eric wrote:

Reply to
sharx333

Here's an illustrated

... odd that they refer to the drive / driven components as pulleys instead of sprockets.

Reply to
Robert Barr

"Ruprect's Law" ??

Reply to
sharx333

"sharx333" wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@k70g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:

How'd the mechanic see it if there's a cover over it? What was he doing under the hood while rotating tires?

Reply to
Jim Yanik

Hello jim. It was on a lift for the tire rotation, and we decided to take it up a little higher to check under it. Using a flashlight, he basically saw just the lower section of the timing belt/pulley. I was skeptical too, at first, thinking the grooves were too regularly spaced apart. But when I got home and took the valve cover and belt cover off... Possibly this belt was put on *too* tight, or was of a quality for which the word "aftermarket" is too kind.

Anyway I would love to do this myself, so I'm looking through the posts and reading the service manual, I still can't figure out how to take that stubborn "special bolt" off...

Jim Yanik wrote:

Reply to
sharx333

Check out the options here:

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TeGGeR says, an impact wrench is the overall best way. If you can rent a hefty electric one with a socket to match you should be okay. Note that regular sockets must not be used with an impact wrench as the brittle regular sockets can explode. In any event, don't blow off the need for eye protection.

It can be a challenge, but it can be done. Besides the special techniques, I think the special bolt requires special vocabulary. But once it moves the rest is downhill.

Mike

Reply to
Michael Pardee

"Michael Pardee" wrote in news:DZqdndLsCvzp84PYnZ2dnUVZ snipped-for-privacy@sedona.net:

crankshaft pulley bolt torque spec for my B18 DOHC motor is 130 ft-lbs,so you'd need a impact driver with torque greater than that. (probably a LOT more!!)

My Haynes manual suggests a strap wrench to hold the crank pulley still while using a 1/2" driver socket and breaker bar.

Reply to
Jim Yanik

"sharx333" wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@k70g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:

It sounds like the lower timing belt cover was missing;it seems to me that the timing belt should not be exposed that one could see it.

Maybe that's why your new belt is degraded? It was left exposed to the elements by a missing cover.

Reply to
Jim Yanik

pah, haynes. good luck with the strap - you will indeed need "special vocabulary" trying to do it with one of those. bolts lock in there for /way/ more than 170ft.lbs to loosen.

***

to the op, buy the proper holder tool, then sell it on ebay if you don't need it again. or you can rent the factory tool from some honda dealers.

belt replacement is relatively straightforward once you remove the bolt, and get the accessories out of the way. a/c and steering pumps both move without the need to disconnect pipes, even though it may not be obvious at first sight.

when installing the new belt, make sure you tension correctly. google this group on how to do it as it's been posted a number of times this year.

write back if you have questions.

Reply to
jim beam

i second that.

Reply to
jim beam

"sharx333" wrote > The timing belt on my '95 Civic ESi (1.6L SOHC) is about

4 years old,

From reading here and elsewhere, and keeping an eye on my own, 91 Civic's timing belt, I agree this does not seem normal. Do you know who the belt manufacturer was? Who changed it last, anyway, the dealer or an independent shop? Maybe ask them from where they get the belts, or it might be printed on the belt.

OTOH I do not recall reading caveats about belt manufacturers, perhaps because there are so few manufacturers and they generally produce high quality belts.

What sort of driving conditions does this car see? Anything that would qualify as "extreme" per your owner's manual? E.g. a lot of dust, cold starts, Canada-like temperature extremes?

Has oil per chance leaked onto the belt? There are cautions about avoiding this on the net and when changing it.

Jim Yanik's theory sounds plausible, too. On my 91 Civic, I do not think one can see the sort of detail you're describing by looking at the belt from the bottom. The angle is too extreme.

On the "special" pulley bolt: If I (an amateur who has slowly been accumulating more proficiency in the last ten years) can get it off using hand tools, I think just about anyone can. The route that may be most reliable and least expensive may be taking the car to a garage, having them use their super-duper air impact wrench to loosen the bolt, then just snugging it up for the presumably short trip home. That bolt typically requires serious torque to break free, but I think that's mostly due to it being a fine thread subject to heat cycling over a period of years, so the female and male thread metals tend to "meld" together.

A lot of folks here report having just run the car to their local garage and tipping the techs there $10-$15 or so for breaking the bolt free.

Another resource:

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I trust you are not driving the car at this point. Doing so risks a broken or failed belt, potentially destroying the engine.

Reply to
Elle

Thanks to everyone for taking time to reply. I posted a photo, if you're curious:

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Reply to
sharx333

Thanks. No shortage here of that "special vocabulary". Any other tricky things to watch out for?

Michael Pardee wrote:

Reply to
sharx333

Hmm.. That could be it. I thought it funny for Honda to leave it exposed like that. Since the rainy season began, this car has waded through ankle-deep water a few times, and sometimes it splashes into the engine bay. Could it be that being hot and getting wet caused the cracking? I guess some previous mechanic forgot to put it back..

Jim Yanik wrote:

Reply to
sharx333

Apart from wading into ankle-deep water a few times, it doesn't see very extreme conditions. Weather is mild here, if somewhat hot and humid. No evidence of oil on the belt, at least not now. It did have a slight leak at the head gasket, before I replaced it. It's an easy jump from there to the belt.

As cars this age go, it has relatively low mileage: less than 60K miles.

Thanks for the advice, Elle. Since getting all your responses, I prudently avoided running the engine. This afternoon I sprayed penetrating oil into the bolt, to maybe help it along. What hand tools did you use? I assume you made your own special wrench.

Reply to
sharx333

"Mechanic" is too nice of a word for someone who "forgets" to reinstall the lower timing belt cover.

Eric

Reply to
Eric

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