Civis Si sedan

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wrote:


Not to my knowledge. The only aluminum Rover engine up to the Vega's time was the 3500 V8. That one was Buick's old 215, which had iron liners.

Lots of makers used aluminum blocks with iron liners. Very few tried bare aluminum. I do believe Porsche was one of those, with their 928 engine.
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On Mon, 20 Nov 2006 20:36:26 -0800, jim beam

Bzzt, wrong.
My 87 Accord had iron liners, but that design ended in the early 1990's. There's some magic process they do that chemically forms a silicon-composite coating on the cylinder walls, and I think the S2000 uses a different alloy that forms a better coating, but unless I've misunderstood for a long time, the iron liners are long gone, along with carbuerators and mechanical distributors. Next to go: camshafts.
J.
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JXStern wrote:

the silicon relief etching is what was tried on the porsche. it worked fine in the lab, but was not good in practice.
the honda solution is to cast a thin iron liner into the block. it's only a few mm. go to a junk yard and check out the motors that have had their heads pulled. the outside of the wet liners are indeed alloy from the casting, but scrape the top face, and you'll see the change in color between the two materials - the interior is most definitely iron.

it's a carbon matrix liner, and it too is cast into the alloy block.

iron liners are very much alive. there's nothing to touch iron for wear and heat transfer at that price point.

camshafts will be with us for a while longer. there's plenty of other actuation devices which theoretically could offer significant advantages, but it's hard to replicate the "gradual opening" effect of a cam driven valve - and that has substantial gas flow benefit - without spending a good chunk of change. different valve operation would offer the "holy grail" of truly variable valve timing, but let's be realistic, there's no way a manufacturer is going to substitute 100+ year reliability that costs maybe $100 for the whole shooting match in quantity, with something that's going to cost $1,000+ which for most applications, offers no benefit. even F1 doesn't have engines haven't abandoned cams, and if there is a bottomless money pit into which engineering initiative is dropped, it is F1.
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On Tue, 21 Nov 2006 07:53:35 -0800, jim beam

I will swear that some car magazine said Honda was using this on their mainline engines at some point around ten years ago. Maybe it came and went.
But Googling around ... seems to show you are correct about now.
Well hey, maybe I misunderstood whatever back when. Glad to hear it, actually, never did think anyone had the technology to do without it and deliver real realiability.
So, well, thanks!
J.
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JXStern wrote:

car mags publish crap, with a lot of the import scare stories being "inspired" by detroit in an effort to keep the home fires burning. kinda scary actually. kinda ironic too seeing as nowadays, detroit's falling over itself to source so much of its componentry from china.

there's other solutions out there including hard chrome lined aluminum [used in some types of applications like powered hang gliders iirc], but at the end of the day, it all comes down to durability for the application - and price. right now, iron alloy liners are king and are likely to remain so for the foreseeable future.

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Whoa yeah. It's thin indeed, about 1/8". And I thought the Toyota 4A was bad with a quarter-inch around the fire-ring.
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"TeGGeR����������������������" wrote:

how thick does it need to be? the biggest load a liner experiences is thermal. aluminum is a better conductor than iron, so thinner is better and let the aluminum do the work.
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wrote:

Also Chevy Vega. Remember? Major disaster for GM.
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wrote:

No. Mine has iron cylinders cast into an aluminum jacket.
When the head came off for a gasket change a few years ago, you could still see crosshatching in the bores. It's the rings.
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Greed! $28k is a ridiculous price, but someone will pay it.

http://automobiles.honda.com/models/exterior_colors.asp?ModelName=Civic+Si+Sedan
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