Clutch life?

Not necessarily ABnormal. If you know how to drive it properly, it shouldn't have a problem lasting. It wears only when you cause it to wear. Don't slip it excessively and don't sit with the pedal pushed in--not hard to do, but all too few people do it right.

"Joe J" wrote in news:iqc9gv$6ue$ snipped-for-privacy@dont-email.me:

There is no "normal". Clutch life is 100% dependent on how you drive. That's why automakers will not warrantee clutches.

I got almost 256K out of /my/ original clutch, which is apparently a record at my dealership. That probably means you're getting close to the end of /your/ clutch.

If you can excuse the unfortunate "fine writing" which I have not yet corrected, this page may be of interest:

the analysis of why the gear shifting problem was starting to show is incorrect. the reason shifting became difficult was because the friction disk hub was no longer floating on the input shaft and was starting to bind, and thus it was continuing to receive drive input when it shouldn't have been because it wasn't releasing properly. that is why the shaft teeth are coated in powdered [subsequently oxidized] metal and one side of the friction material is more worn than the other.

in factory, the splines of the input shaft and the disk hub should be coated in a very thin layer of antiseize or anti friction material. if this is inadequate, or simply becomes overwhelmed by debris, the anti-friction properties diminish, and the splines start to rub and wear. once this wear has reached the stage where there's oxide accumulating, and this disk is choked with it, then the hub starts to bind.

damage to the springs, while a factor in noise [rattle] and take-up smoothness, does not affect the friction surface release. indeed, i've seen friction disks with springs completely broken and retainers way more chewed than this, and apart form the noise, transmission operation has been unaffected because the disk has still been releasing properly.

whenever fitting a new clutch, especially on a transmission input shaft where wear will be evident such as the case here, it should always be thoroughly cleaned to remove oxides and accumulated abrasion product, and a thin layer of [i use copper] antiseize applied. its life will subsequently be long and smooth, and more importantly, transmission life will be extended because of lower load on the synchros.

jim beam wrote in news:aLGdnawFEpYnelTQnZ2dnUVZ snipped-for-privacy@speakeasy.net:

But that's exactly what I said. See the section entitled, "The source of the problem".

Like I said...

so you understand the problem well enough to go ahead and describe the process for resolution then...

binding is quite a common problem with high-count spline patterns like this. high spline count is good in that the splines are rolled into the shaft and are thus more fatigue resistant. but the contact area is wedge shaped and thus subject to more abrasion as it slides. in low count dog tooth spline designs, the shaft has to be machined, is less fatigue resistant, but is pretty much immune from this kind of problem [unless there's an extreme abnormality like water immersion].

Thanks, it was interesting.

Thus spake "Joe J" :

My wife's 96 Accord went 146K when we sold it in 2007 and the buyer (a friend) reports no problems at 175K, much of that last ~30K being up-down-up-down street driving. The only clutch problem she had was when she lost a seal on the slave and had to essentially slam shift between neutral and 2nd down to the dealer. Oh, THAT will tear a clutch up if anything will.

Uh, not true. My son's F-150 had the slave cylinder leak oil all over the clutch plate. We only noticed the leak when the clutch start slipping. Ford replaced the slave cylinder, clutch plate, disk, throwout bearing, etc. at their expense at 30K miles.

Lynn

Did you put a new one in or get a different car? It's a decision I'll probably have to be making soon on a 13 yr old car w/225k on it. Runs great, no rust, at least on the upper body. The entire rear license, light holder, rusted out, but I just drilled a hole through the plastic above the plate and glued it in there. When we lived in Vegas for a couple of years ago, I took the car in and I don't remember for what, but they put it up on the hoist and the first thing the mechanic says is: Oh, you must be from back East with all the rust under here.

"Joe J" wrote in news:iqhin5$5ib$ snipped-for-privacy@dont-email.me:

Put a new one in. All OEM parts. That clutch now has 108,000 miles on it.

Rust is a plague up here. Causes all sorts of headaches, plus a lot of added expense keeping a car going.

Lynn McGuire wrote in news:iqgui8$dbi$ snipped-for-privacy@dont-email.me:

When I said "clutch life", I meant the friction disc, not the hydraulics. The friction disc is a consumable; it is meant to eventually wear out, and how long that takes is 100% dependent on you.

In the case of your son's F150, it was the slave cylinder that was warranteed, not the friction disc. The dealer had to correct all the damaged parts the failed slave committed, one of which happened to be the friction disc.

I sure wish you had not mentioned your clutch life. ;-}

My 1999 Accord has just at 260,000 miles on the original clutch and I am about to go on a two week trip of a few thousand miles. Just what I need is to lose the clutch while out in the wilds of the Midwest. :-)

Your HondaFAQ is a wonderful thing and I really enjoyed the discussion of the clutch issues.

Thanks for helping the community!

Very true. His F-150 has the 4.0L V6 and we found out that the gearbox is a mazda build instead of the tough as nails V8 variety. I do note now that Ford has totally dropped all manual transmissions in their F-150 and above trucks. BTW, he is closing in on 100K miles in that truck.

Lynn

Thus spake LakeGator :

I see the smiley, but I need to respond. Clutch failure is a slow, horrible death. You should notice it well in advance. I've been told by people who had no idea how their car operated that they knew something was wrong well before the actual disk failure. Now whether they did anything about it is another matter.

Agreed.