Corolla v Civic v Hyundai/Nissan moeds

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Elle wrote:


There were a few small models with small engines that were designed to be thrifty for just about as long as cars were built. It would be hard to answer your question definitively, because it would depend on how you defined it. Volkswagen used to boast about the 25 MPG Beetle (although the heavier, faster, more robust Volvo Amazon would also average 25). Models like the Nash Rambler (introduced in 1950) and Plymouth Valiant were designed with fuel economy as a significant factor. I'm sure that whenever there was a Depression or Recession, or gas rationing, fuel economy was used as a selling point...
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Thanks for the report. :-)

Ha!
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CVTs.
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Newbie wrote:

Also, the Prius isn't heavily discounted off of MSRP, while the Corolla is. There was brief period, after California gave out the maximum number of carpool lane stickers for hybrids, that Prius street prices fell a lot, but now with the higher gas prices they're back up.
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A good analysis, but real world consumption figures show the Prius lower than the EPA rating, much lower in cold winter weather. On the up side for the Prius here in Canada there are Gov. rebates for low consumption vehicles, which drop the price of the Prius significantly, the Camry hybrid quite a bit and even the Corolla slightly.
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wrote:

My real world consumption figures for my Prius in NJ is a reliable 50+ MPG in the winter and 52-55 nowadays. Blocking the front grille slats in the winter keeping the engine warmer goes a long way. So my real world consumption figures for my Prius in NJ is higher than the EPA rating. Tomes
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wrote:

The cabbies here tell me they get: -9 l/100 (26 mpUSg) with the Corolla and -6 l/100 (39 mpUSg) with the Prius. This is all urban driving.
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Got a lot of opinions Josh, how about facts, the Prius will NOT run on a failed battery pack and cabbies have heavy feet, it is part of the job.....however, don't you see the contradiction in your two statements that the battery packs fail in three to five years yet they are usesd as high mileage taxies....of course you don't see that, after all, you have been told all of these things and after all drove a prius once admittedly overloaded. Oh well, this is the internet, these are things you have heard or read so of course they must be true fact.

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Ok, I'm biased since I own 3 Corollas (one tho is a 1992 but in great shape). I won't get into which one is the best because of my bias but how can you go wrong with any of your choices? Even if you did, how bad could it be compared to your other choices? I say rather than beat your brains out, buy the Corolla (is my bias showing yet?) and enjoy it for 200,000 miles or more.
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As others have pointed out, the Prius is larger than a Corolla so the comparison isn't completely fair. OTOH, a Civic Hybrid costs about $3000 more than a Civic EX and the 40 to 30 mpg comparison would be about right fro these two. So it could pay for itself and then some during the period you expect to own it.
As for your original questions:
Civic LX or EX model is worth considering. LX saves you about $2000 if you don't need a sunroof, alloy wheels or a fancy stereo.
Use Edwards and the manufacturer sites to do your research. Google is your friend.
I would shop any place that sells the cars. You can play them against each other to see who will give you the best price.
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It's also fair to point out that there are Federal tax breaks available to those that buy hybrids. If those tax breaks are still in existence (and I believe they are), they greatly enhance the economy of these vehicles.

And by all means, use the fleet manager and the web site of the dealership. You can usually get better deals this way than by dealing with the snake on the sales floor...
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Joe - Linux User #449481/Ubuntu User #19733
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"Joe" ...

If one is stuck paying the AMT (alternative minimum tax), there is no break for them. Tomes
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If one is "stuck" paying the AMT, the price shouldn't be that big of a deal to them... ;-)
--
Joe - Linux User #449481/Ubuntu User #19733
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wrote:

more folks need to know that then know it today. Tomes
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My understanding of the tax incentive is that it is limited to the first 60,000 cars of each model, or maybe the auto maker. The Prius has gone over that so there is no more incentive.
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Elmo P. Shagnasty wrote:

It's fine, as long as you sell it before the batteries need to be replaced. Toyota is very clever with the Prius batteries in the way they never discharge them very deeply, at least in the U.S. (in other countries there is a button that allow greater electric range by allowing the batteries to discharger more). This allows them to claim that they last a very long time, when in fact they are losing efficiency from day one. _They_ get to decide when the batteries are worn out. It's similar to how automakers define "normal" oil consumption to avoid having to repair oil-burning engines.
You're much better off with a Corolla than a Prius, unless you're driving huge amounts of miles (then you're better off with one of the VW TDI vehicles). I recently sold something on craigslist to someone that drove up in a new TDI. Since they don't sell these in California, I asked him how he got it, and he said that there's a dealer in Marin county that brings in slightly used TDIs from Oregon (I think they need 7000 miles on them) then sells them as used cars. Very high mileage and very good engines. VWs have good longevity, even if they have more initial problems.
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I think the best resource is the April issue of Consumer Reports. CR has matrices for every year and model of car for about the last ten years that show the reliability of different car systems. It jives IMO with what generally hears: Honda and Toyota are the most reliable. OTOH, certain Toyota models, like the Tundra, are doing very poorly for reliability. See http://money.cnn.com/2007/10/16/autos/cr_reliability/index.htm . Still, you might be fine with a Corolla.

I plan to use email to negotiate the price of my next car. This is based on reading reports here of much success with this.

Makes no difference. It's a new vehicle, and that's what counts.
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RPS I've been wondering the same recently and am still researching. For what's its worth Consumer Reports (CR) has picked the '08 Elantra SE as it's best small car. http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/cars/models/new/hyundai/elantra/se-4-cyl/overview.htm
Here is their summery:
"The Elantra is a pleasant small sedan. We found the ride comfortable and road noise low, but the Elantra still isn't as agile as a Mazda3 or Honda Civic. The engine booms at high revs but returns good fuel economy. Cabin access is fairly easy, and the roomy interior is put together nicely. It also has more standard safety equipment than some competitors, including ABS and curtain air bags. Electronic stability control is standard on the SE trim and, combined with wider tires and a tighter suspension, makes the car very secure. IIHS offset-crash results are good. First-year reliability has been much better than average. An Elantra Touring hatchback model will arrive for 2009."
Another interesting new feature CR has is under "Price and Costs" They calcuate the overall cost of owning the car for 1-8 years to be $0.46 a mile which they rate as "Excellent" which is their highest rating.
I'm going to check the other car site and see how these cars you've mentioned fair.
Paul
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RPS wrote:

I'd first narrow things down by safety, reliability, depreciation, and longevity.
What are the top four compacts in each category.
Safety ------ Subaru Impreza Honda Civic Nissan Versa Toyota Corolla (assuming 2009 model ranks highly in Side & Rear tests)
J.D. Power Long Term Dependability (3 year) -------------- Only Toyota and Honda rank above the industry average
Longevity (11-20 years) (of companies making small, non-luxury cars) --------- Saturn Toyota Honda Mazda
Depreciation ------------ Honda Civic Toyota Corolla Mazda 3 Nissan Versa

You can buy the base Corolla with a manual transmission very inexpensively, but most people in the U.S. don't buy manual transmission vehicles.

Buying a slightly used Corolla or Civic rarely makes sense because these models are highly discounted by dealers, yet have very high resale value. As a result, a good deal on a new one is often less expensive than a bad deal on a used one.

Once you narrow down by tangible factors, that's really up to your preferences.

Consumer Reports is a start, though they tend to emphasize reliability and value, less on handling and performance.

It depends on where you live. Carsdirect can at least give you a baseline of what to expect, but they tend to be a bit higher in price than what you can get on your own, or through a non-profit buying service.

The Corolla is new for 2009, so be careful. I've been burned by the first year of a new model (though it was a Honda).

About now, if they have any left.
We're also in the same situation. A 12 year old Camry that while still reliable has some issues. I don't like the lack of rear headrests, and most new vehicles seem to have full rear headrests (3 of them). Now that my kids are bigger I want something more suitable for them, but I'm thinking of going down to the Corolla instead of another Camry if the legroom is sufficient, just for the better mileage.
Bottom line is that if you're looking for another vehicle that will last 12 years, and still work well and look decent, get the Corolla.
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I'd agree the Corolla is a good choice. I have been enjoying the heck out of my '09 Matrix S (Corolla with more interior hauling capacity). It has the Camry 2.4l engine and moves along pretty quickly. If you go this route I'd suggest selecting an upgrade on tires as the stock 16" stock tires don't do anything for performance (as tested in the June '08 Consumers Reports).
We looked at the Prius and were told the battery had a 10 year/ 100,000 mile warranty but no one seemed to know If the terms of the warranty specified what amount of lost battery capacity would be considered unacceptable.
The other thought I had was the fact that your resale value would depend highly upon the cost and availability of a new battery 10 years down the road. No one at the dealership could accuratly speculate on future battery availability.
Good luck with whatever you choose.
dennis in nca
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