Crude based or synthetic oil ...

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Straight from the mouth of some guy who saw a leak on his own and made it up.
This not unlike the Greeks inventing their gods to try to make sense of the world.
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On 03/06/2012 06:39 AM, Elmo P. Shagnasty wrote:

dead right - my buddy's p.o.s. jag leaks because it's a jag and it has stupid things like leather "seals". not because he runs synthetic oil.
but that said, modern seal conditioners are an important part of an oil's additive package. on an old vehicle that has been neglected, seals can become hard and inflexible. cutting corners [motorcraft] will lead to seal hardening and significant leakage in that situation. and using an oil with a good additive package can seal that puppy right back up again, provided of course the car was any good in the first place.
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On 03/06/2012 07:50 AM, SMS wrote:

no, it's completely misunderstood. this ridiculous myth regurgitation as a substitute for bothering to learn the facts is simply retarded.
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On 03/06/2012 07:49 AM, SMS wrote:

absolute bullshit.

<http://forums.gmhightechperformance.com/70/6662987/ltx/high-mileage-switch-to-synthetic-oil-leak/index.html
it's on the web, so it must be true? http://www.alaska.net/~clund/e_djublonskopf/Flatearthsociety.htm some other guy said it so it must be true?
retard. all you're doing is standing about in a circle eating the excrement of the guy in front of you while the guy behind you eats yours. it doesn't to teach you a damned thing except how to eat that stuff and get brain washed into thinking it does you good.

bottom line, /you/ should avoid polluting usenet with your regurgitated ignorant filth.
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I developed no leaks after I started using Mobil 1. The engine had 20K on it.

Those are all GM cars. A Honda is not a GM.
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TYPO. I left out a zero.
That "20K" was supposed to be TWO-HUNDRED-THOUSAND.
The engine now has 380,000 miles. That's three-hundred-and-eighty-thousand, in case I make another typo.

OK, not all GM. Fair enough. But those are all allegations made in Internet posts. Nobody has verified them. It's entirely possible the posters are blaming their oil for problems that had entirely unrelated origins.
Anybody can post to the Internet/Usenet, and anybody does. Including me.

Synthetics are completely compatible with all mineral oils. Synthetics are suitable for new engines, ancient engines, and all engines in between.
Synthetics do not cause oil leaks through /any/ mechanism. If somebody was using a mineral oil, switched to synthetic and discovered an oil leak, it was a coincidence. The leak was bound to happen anyway. Just because "A" follows "B" does not mean "A" caused "B".
There are a lot of silly ideas floating around the Internet and Usenet, and this synthetics-and-oil-leaks thing is one of them.

Mobil 1 is 100% synthetic.

Boy does it buy you a clean engine. 180K after that head job, the head is a sparkly-silver as the day I got hit back. I am frankly astounded.
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On 03/07/2012 09:27 AM, SMS wrote:

to some extent, that's true. but there's a lot of detail missing in that broad brush picture. fact is, detergent isn't the only thing keeping the engine clean - it's what kind of viscosity improver [which breaks down over time and causes deposits], and what kind of base oil [which breaks down over time and causes deposits] too. even detergents are different from oil to oil, not to mention anti-oxidants, anti-foaming agents, extreme pressure additives, etc. so while paying a lot of money for a "boutique" oil doesn't guarantee high quality, /not/ paying definitely ensures you're going to get lower quality and thus will have to pay closer attention to the factory maintenance schedule.
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On 03/06/2012 11:54 AM, SMS wrote:

no they're not. and seal efficacy is not just a function of the seal material - it's design and also shaft finish quality.

regurgitation and failure to observe fact doesn't make for authoritative analysis. "sludge" does not close a sliding seal any more than gravel prevents your roof leaking.

what do you think a modern "synthetic" actually is? i'll tell you - it's simply a slightly more refined mineral oil than is traditional. and i know that for fact from a senior exec at one of the oil majors. modern "synthetic" is more a label for what the oil /doesn't/ contain than anything else.

most of the domestic "synthetics" are the same kind of group III mineral oils as mobil 1. so don't single it out as being any worse than the others. indeed, its additive package is very good.

at this point, it's not about the base, but the additives. premium "synthetics" contain premium additives. on that basis, and the fact that their additives permit sustained operation/longer drain intervals, they're worth the money. some even have better friction reduction which saves you their premium price in reduced gasoline consumption.
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On 3/6/2012 6:26 AM, Doug wrote:

Sounds pretty nerdish, too. I bet I could ask around all the people I know if they ever had one and they wouldn't know what I was talking about.
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wrote:

What, an owner's manual?
I'd believe that.
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On 03/06/2012 12:08 PM, cameo wrote:

of course! but nerds are the people y'all rely on to get stuff done, so don't underrate them.

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wrote:

In short, summarizing the other posts - I guess you can skip the midway oil change ANYWAY, and certainly if you switch to synthetic, which would still see a change every seven months or so.
But, are you burning any oil with the old engine? If so then you will have to remember to check it and maybe top it off, and what's more you may actually be polluting the oil faster than a younger car would and this might make your current plan the best.
J.
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On 3/1/2012 4:48 PM, JRStern wrote:

I do burn about a quart of oil between current oil changes at 3,750 mile intervals. So I replenish that much during that time span.
By the way, I happened to talk to a mechanic about this issue after I posted my message and he said that even if the synthetic oil could allow me to skip that "mid-term" oil change, one oil filter could be a problem for 7,500 miles. Hm, it never even occured to me and so far none of you mentioned itt either. It sounds reasonable though, but what do I know?
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On 03/01/2012 07:53 PM, cameo wrote:

???????????? what kind of "mechanic" is this?

the reason nobody mentioned it is because it's not an issue. when you have cars with 10k or even 20k mile oil change intervals, filter clogging is rarely an issue. a honda with a modern multi-million dollar maintenance minder wouldn't tell you to change the filter more frequently than the oil, and honda's conservative oil management will typically last 7-10k miles. how could any special departure from that just for the filter seem "reasonable"?
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Maybe the kind who knows the whole engine is pretty loosey-goosey burning a quart every 3,750 miles? Reminds me of my old Alfa, where you had to dump the oil into the gas tank every fillup. Ah, the old days!

Cuz he's in a much older model?
I'll leave it to you experts to judge whether and how you want to use synthetic oil in a car burning it at that rate, my guess is - you don't.
J.
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On 03/01/2012 09:36 PM, JRStern wrote:

that doesn't burn filters though dude. if anything, the fresh oil being added keeps it healthier - things like the drain-back valve don't become so inflexible and the fresh detergents keep the fine particles from precipitating.

doesn't matter. the 94 has a very good engine management system - it certainly doesn't load a filter in only 3.75k miles. not even 7.5k miles.

since most car "synthetics" are in fact just "group III" mineral oils, and most "ordinary" oils are now "semi-synthetic", most of the differential advantages are substantially eroded and really just down to the additive package.
but those additives can be markedly different. some oils without good seal conditioners [motorcraft brand] will let shrink seals like crazy. others like castrol gtx have good seal conditioners, but as tegger relates regarding deposits, is less good for detergents. bottom line, good branded "synthetics" are indeed good oils with great additive packages. and if synthetics are used, it's completely pointless sticking to the traditional oil change intervals.
as for oil burning, i wouldn't hesitate to use a synthetic in a burner. my experience is that with the good detergent package actually cleaning the engine, the rings tend to free up and consumption can drop significantly. my 89's engine was burning at the rate of a quart per thousand when i first got it with 105k on the clock. after about 2 years of synthetics, the engine had cleaned to the point you see in that flickr pic, and today, the oil consumption rate has dropped to about half a quart per 5k miles.

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.

Not true at all. You can switch back-and-forth anytime you like between mineral and synthetic.
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On 03/02/2012 08:44 AM, SMS wrote:

not true. in the old days of ester-based synthetics, that was more of an issue, but these days, most "synthetics" are just refined mineral oils so there is no shrinkage to start with, and on top of that, they add seal conditioners. at this point, it's just an old wives tale.

if you read the wording more carefully, you'll see the difference between the headline and the legal c.y.a. but the reality is most synthetics can extend change intervals substantially.

see above.

contamination is what the filter is for. unless you have a low grade filter that starts to internally leak, contamination isn't an issue because particle size is kept below the oil film thickness size - and by some margin too.

indeed.
if you're sticking to factory change intervals. and are using a decent quality standard oil. [most standards are semi-synthetic now anyway.] but if you use extended intervals, which you can, synthetics are a substantial improvement.
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wrote:

Quality control of filters is becoming lax these days as well... search Google and YouTube for numerous examples.
A shorter change interval will help minimize wear should you happen to get a bad one.

Note this passage excerpted from an 08 Honda 'Fit' owners manual:
"Synthetic Oil You may use a synthetic motor oil if it meets the same requirements given for a conventional motor oil, it displays the API Certification Seal, and it is the proper weight. You must follow the oil and filter change intervals given in the maintenance schedule."
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On 03/02/2012 06:49 PM, Erik wrote:

then don't use bad ones. simple.

that's called "cya". it's also called "if we don't spell something out, some people will never change their oil at all". and i know that for fact.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/38636024@N00/6547293977 http://www.flickr.com/photos/38636024@N00/6547293973 http://www.flickr.com/photos/38636024@N00/6547293959
it's also covering a situation which is a marketing reality - which is that the word "synthetic" doesn't mean a damned thing. if something sold as "synthetic" is in reality just a standard oil and not capable of extended service, honda would be in for a whole bunch of unnecessary warranty claims that weren't their fault if they didn't cya.
but if you use a quality oil, with analysis, you can use real data to extend your service interval successfully.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/38636024@N00/4291579733
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