Dark Side of the Hybrids

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On Sat, 30 Jul 2005 10:17:32 -0700, snipped-for-privacy@nospam.com (Jason) wrote:

40-45mpg. Many non-hybrids on sale in the EU will easily beat that. For isntance, n the UK, a VW lupo returned to one of the most outspoken motoring journalists int he world, an AVERAGE of 65mpg Hybrids are a Pr stunt only.
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Fuel economy is only a side effect of hybridization. The major reason for the change is to correct the fundamental engineering debacle of using a 260 hp engine to move a personal vehicle through city traffic or along a freeway while we could have *better* performance and economy from a 100 hp engine running when needed and electric power to do the rest. In effect, hybridization separates engine power from acceleration performance. Honda has a good example in their 2001 concept car, the Dualnote ( http://world.honda.com/Tokyo2001/auto/DUALNOTE/index.html ). 4 passengers, 400 combined hp, with off-the-line acceleration comparable to a 600 hp car (according to Honda engineers interviewed in a Popular Mechanics article a couple years ago), and fuel economy estimated around 40 mpg. Kinda like a Super Lupo ;-)
Admittedly, hybrids are in their infancy now (but as an owner I can tell you the Prius is a really nice infant!) As an engineer I believe it is safe to say hybrids will be the rule rather than the exception for passenger cars (but not trucks) within 20 years for very sound design reasons. You may believe what you wish.
Mike
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Any ICO will not always be making it's full rated power,usually far less.

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Mike, You are probably right. I know that you will be right once the price of hybrid vehicles comes down to the point where almost anyone can easily afford to buy them. The Honda Accord Hybrid is so expensive that Honda is having a difficult time selling very many of them. If the Accord Hybrid was priced the same as the 6 cyld. Accord, they would sell lots more of them. Jason
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Base EX-V6 Accord $33,600 CDN Base Hybrid Accord $36,900 CDN Source http://honda.ca/Honda/default.htm?L=E
What prices are *you* referring too, "Jason"?
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Steve, The above two prices that you mentioned. If the Hybrid Accord and EX-V6 Accord were both priced at $33,600--Honda would sell lots more of them. I rarely ever see any Hybrid Accords on any of the parking lots of the local grocery stores and Walmart stores. I see lots of the V6 (non Hybrid) in those same parking lots. I realize that this won't happen in the next 5 years since it costs Honda much more to make a Hybrid Accord than a regular Accord. Jason
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Steve Bigelow wrote:

As I was pricing a EX-V6 and a hybrid in the San Francisco area in Jan/Feb 2005 I found I could get the EX-V6 Navi (with leather) for $26K but the hybrid was about $32K. As I calculated it: for the price difference and MPG difference one would need to drive the car for 500K miles to break even.
I would love to have a hybrid but that $6K put the hybrid out of the competition.
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Jason wrote:

Honda has taken a strange road with the Accord Hybrid and the Acura MDX hybrid. Rather than using the technology to make a high fuel economy vehicle they are using it to make a higher performance, expensive vehicle.
Mostly they are selling these vehicles to the feel-good, feel-proud buyer. A good manual transmission diesel-powered drivetrain would be a much more efficient use of resources both at the manufacturing stage and in use.
John
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wrote:

Problem is, you can't get a decent, efficient, and above all else MODERN diesel engine in the Us - i believe its because the fuel that is sold here, doesn't work well with the new engine designs that have come up in the last 20-odd years, and the new fuels don't work well with the engines that have been sold in the US in those intervening 20 years.

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flobert wrote:

VW is the only one selling good moderate priced diesel powered cars in the US right now.
This is mostly a problem of politics and not of engineering or economics.
John
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fuel economy, but the luster of hybrids has led a lot of manufacturers to jump on the bandwagon and call some pretty embarrassing things "hybrids." GM is easily the worst, trying to pass off idle-stop technology as hybridization. Proposed and existing legislation favoring (but not usually defining) hybrids makes the problem worse.
Until controller and battery technology can bring us practical serial hybrids (essentially electric cars with on-board chargers) we will have to wade through the fluff.
Mike
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The sky is falling! The sky is falling! The sky is falling!
Jason wrote:

-- Tp,
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No Lawsuit Ever Fixed A Moron...
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