for the guys that are into recreational oil changing...

You'd think that being parked on a pair of ramps would clue her in that something was going on...

Reply to
Joe
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superstition beats science every time - there's /always/ some superstitious excuse.

Reply to
jim beam

nonsense - by definition, "normal" is what most people drive in.

Reply to
jim beam

I didn't say that ALL old timers were like this, just that it is the common thread.

Reply to
Joe

Because as everyone knows, even you, there's bang for the buck to consider.

Thanks for your hyperbole, anyway.

Reply to
Elmo P. Shagnasty

My 83 year old father is perfectly happy with the Honda maintenance minder.

He putters around town, and intersperses that with some 1000 mile trips now and then. At 10500 miles on his MDX, it's now indicating almost time for his second oil change. I think it just hit the 15% oil life remaining, and flashed up the "get ready" indicator. And that was in the middle of one of those 1000 mile trips.

So, it'll be 11K to 12K miles before the second oil change. I guess that depends on how much puttering he does. But now that the temperature is warming up, it'll probably be closer to 12K miles is my guess.

Reply to
Elmo P. Shagnasty

Just ask the folks who are holding their breaths to get on a jury for a Toyota lawsuit, so they can justify their superstition by awarding a huge settlement to people who are CLEARLY the victims of cosmic rays banging on their ECUs and gas pedals.

Reply to
Elmo P. Shagnasty

Yep. Like my dad.

And Honda's computer indicates somewhere between 5K and 6K oil changes.

Reply to
Elmo P. Shagnasty

That's why you leave the hood up...

Reply to
Mark

When you get an extra 1/4 to 1/2 a quart out, I have to think so.

Reply to
Mark

If there are other pools of oil in the engine, why doesn't the oil turn dark right away? What is the percentage difference between 5% old oil left and 1%? Think it's 4%?

Reply to
Mark

So why do you care? That is really the much more interesting question.

I know people who clean their house every day - sometimes twice a day. Given that there are people who keep their houses spotless why isn't their a similar cohort of self-appointed internet mavens that are out their trying to convince others that it is bad to clean house too often? Some people don't like to have black oil in their engines just like some people can't stand to see a speck of dirt in their house. Why is it that the one attracts so much criticism while the other goes without comment?

The question is why are there so many zealots on the internet that feel it is their mission in life to convince other motorists that it is good to be driving around with black oil in their engines? What sort of belief system drives a person to go around trying to convert others to black engine oil?

-jim

Reply to
jim

ooooh, "black oil" is evil!!!

dude, have you ever worked on diesels? those things have "black oil" almost instantly. what then - change the oil every 500 miles? or are you going to bother to bust open a can of brains, figure out what matters based on research and learn that "black oil" doesn't mean a damned thing?

here's how it works: combustion produces, among other things, soot. soot is black. i'm sure you're with me so far. but, oil lubrication in a car engine uses something called "hydrodynamic separation". simply, that means the metal bits in a car don't actually touch, they are separated by an oil film. that oil film has a measurable thickness

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if your soot particles are small enough to "fit" in the hydrodynamic film, the metals surfaces don't even know they're there. and that's the job of the oil filter - to makes sure that the big particles are trapped and only the harmless stuff flows through.

beyond that, if the oil is chemically and thermally stable, and has the chemical ingredients to handle other combustion products like acid, and the filter is working properly, "black oil" is actually an indication that the oil is doing its job properly - it is holding everything in suspension and continuing to flow.

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Reply to
jim beam

that cosmic ray story was a typical microsoft bullshit excuse for writing crappy code. then came linux that didnt crash running on the same machine and yet another bullshit ignorant superstition was exploded.

Reply to
jim beam

like i said - dilution.

suggest you go to a junk yard and look at a few engines with the rocker cover removed - you'll see examples of these pooling features and the camshafts that sit in them. honda d-series is one example.

Reply to
jim beam

"think" not "know".

Reply to
jim beam

There are. Vaccuuming causes tons of problems (asthma in children, for example). Exposure to all the chemicals also causes many health problems. People that constantly use those germ killing wipes are making themselves sicker every day.

Are we now trying to demonize anyone that points out 'hey, that is a big waste of money'?

People that want to reduce their country's dependence on foreign oil? People that want the environment to be less poluted? People that are just trying to give helpful financial advice?

Next up: irrational fear that someone will let out word that car wax isn't really beneficial.

Reply to
Obveeus

no shit. if you look at old cars with peeling topcoat, it's the ones that have been waxed/polished that look like crap. cars with higher roofs where owners typically can't reach, they may be oxidized, but magically they don't have a peeling problem.

Reply to
jim beam

-- For my 2003 Civic in severe conditions, the interval then becomes

5k miles or six months.

-- I would have to see a citation to believe that most people drive in severe conditions. I think Jim B is right that "normal" is a word that Honda chose for its manuals with careful consideration.

-- What folks report about their maintenance minders (the ones that use startups, temperatures, etc. as input for when to tell the driver an oil change is needed) seems to support longer intervals.

-- One has to drive /mainly/ in one or more of the severe conditions to justify the shorter interval. E.g. driving less than five miles per trip or in freezing temperatures, less than 10 miles per trip.

Reply to
Elle

You guys must be pretty young. My dad grew up on 1000 mile oil changes & the rule of thumb was whenever it burned a quart, it was time to change the oil.

While some automakers (e.g. Honda) are now saying 5,000/10,000 mile oil change intervals, there are some that are not. Nissan, for example still says 3750 (Severe) & 7500 (Normal), this from my '08 Altima and my '09 G37. Their definition of normal also pretty much leaves out everybody.

Reply to
E. Meyer

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