for the guys that are into recreational oil changing...

Are you sure of that? I had a Frontier and my reading of the maual indicated that changing oil according to the "severe" scedule was open to a broad interpertation.

Here is what was in my 2006 Frontier Owners Guide:

Operation under the following conditions may require more frequent oil and filter changes:

  • repeated short distance driving at cold outside temperatures
  • driving in dusty conditions
  • extensive idling
  • towing a trailer
  • st Depending on your driving habits and local conditions, you should follow one of the three maintenance schedules listed below. Use these guidelines to determine which maintenance schedule to use:

PREMIUM MAINTENANCE* (Every 3,750 miles or 3 months, whichever comes first) Premium Maintenance is a Nissanrecommended option that is suitable for all driving habits and local conditions. Nissan developed Premium Maintenance for owners who want the ultimate in preventative maintenance. With Premium Maintenance, more maintenance items are regularly checked or replaced than with either Schedule 1 or Schedule 2 maintenance schedules.

Using the Premium Maintenance schedule may optimize the performance, reliability, and resale value of your vehicle.

SCHEDULE 1 (Every 3,750 miles or 3 months, whichever comes first)

Schedule 1 features the same 3,750-mile service intervals as Premium Maintenance; however, with Schedule 1 fewer maintenance items are regularly checked or replaced than with the Premium Maintenance schedule. Use Schedule 1 if you primarily operate your vehicle under any of these conditions:

  • Repeated short trips of less than 5 miles in normal temperatures or less than 10 miles in freezing temperatures
  • Stop-and-go traffic in hot weather or low-speed driving for long distances
  • Driving in dusty conditions or on rough, muddy, or salt-spread roads
  • Towing a trailer, or using a camper or car-top carrier

SCHEDULE 2 (Every 7,500 miles or 6 months, whichever comes first)

Schedule 2 features 7,500-mile service intervals; with Schedule 2 fewer maintenance items are regularly checked or replaced than with Schedule 1. Generally, Schedule 2 applies only to highway driving in temperate conditions. Use Schedule 2 only if you primarily operate your vehicle under conditions other than those listed in Schedule 1.

  • Premium Maintenance is a Nissan-recommended option; however, owners need not perform such maintenance in order to maintain the warranties which come with their Nissan. Premium Maintenance may not be available outside the United States, please inquire of your dealer.
****End Quotes****

It seems to me the wording is designed to encourage owners to use the

3,750 service interval, but really, how many people make repeated short trips of less than 5 miles? My assumption would be if you do a five mile commute, but still drive far enough at least weekly to warm the car up, this short trip requirement wouldn't apply.

The stop and go driving requirement and low spped for long distance requirements are undefined. I suppose if you live in LA, then you may always be in stop and go traffic. While this might be hard on your brakes, do you really think it is all that hard on the engine oil? I suppose if you spend hours of time stopped and idling, then you need to change your oil more often. This is where a system like the GM Oil Monitor is very useful. It actually counts engine revolutions and modifies oil change intervals accordingly.

I like the Ford descriptions of Normal and Severe Service better:

Determine which maintenance schedule to follow

It's important to follow the maintenance schedule that most closely mirrors your driving habits and the conditions under which you drive. For this reason, the Scheduled Maintenance Guide is divided into two basic maintenance schedules: the Normal Schedule (further segmented into Trucks, Fullsize Vans & SUVs and Cars & CUVs) and Special Operating Conditions.

Determining which maintenance schedule is right for you is easy. For the most part, do you drive your Ford, Lincoln or Mercury vehicle under typical, everyday conditions? If so, follow the Normal Schedule Trucks, Fullsize Vans & SUVs, or Normal Schedule Cars & CUVs.

Special Operating Conditions

However, if one or more of the Special Operating Conditions outlined below better describes how you typically operate your vehicle, you will need to perform some maintenance services more often than the Normal Schedule recommends.

. Towing a trailer or carrying heavy loads . Extensive idling and/or driving at low-speeds for long distances . Driving in dusty conditions . Off-road operation . Use of E85 fuel 50% of the time or greater (flex fuel vehicles only)

Important: For further details and information regarding these Special Operating Conditions see page 42. ....

Items Needing Special Attention

If you operate your Ford/Lincoln/Mercury primarily in one of the more demanding Special Operating Conditions listed below, you will need to have some items maintained more frequently. If you only occasionally operate your vehicle under these conditions, it is not necessary to perform the additional maintenance. For specific recommendations, see your Ford or Lincoln Mercury Dealership Service Advisor or Technician.

****End Quote****

Notice the statements including the words "primarily" and "occasionally." To me these implies most owners are exempt.

I think the systems like GM's (and others) that use oil life monitors that adjust the change interval based on driving patterns are the best. Toyota took an approach that at least eliminates confusion - they did away with the whole normal/severe schedule confusion by just saying to change the oil every 5000 miles. Of course all of this is just for the US. In Europe oil change intervals are generally specified to be much longer - even for Toyotas that use the same (?) engines as US Toyotas. I have had people claim this is because European specifications for oil are much better than in the US. Does this mean if I use oil that meets the European specs, I could go even longer?

Ed

Reply to
C. E. White
Loading thread data ...

The 5 or 10 miles per trip is if you _exclusively_ do short trips. Ditto for idling and stop and go driving. What they're worried about is that the water that accumulates in the oil will not be vaporized. A freeway drive of 30 minutes or so will take care of the problem with water condensing into the oil.

That's why an interval of 7500 miles or six months, whichever occurs first, is a better spec. It takes into account drivers that are doing short trips only by default.

Jiffy Lube tries to convince everyone that they qualify for "severe service" but don't fall for it.

Reply to
SMS

On Mar 31, 11:34=A0am, SMS wrote: snip

Did you bother to follow JB's link and read the suggested oil change intervals he is promoting? Based on your sentence above, obviously not.

Reply to
ACAR

The link Dr. Beam provides indicates a 10,000 mile oil change interval for cars. It goes on to say "Mileage can be extended furthest in gasoline engines by using higher quality motor oils containing a high total base number (TBN)."

So anything less than 10,000 miles between oil changes is recreational and unnecessary according to the OP. Not 2000, not 3000, not 5000, not 7500 miles.

Reply to
ACAR

Obviously watching US TV has reduced your reading skills to very low level. I'll put it in terms that even a simpleton should be able to understand.

Somebody said

"These minute particles pose no danger to your engine, but they cause the oil to darken."

I responded that although that holds true most of the time there can be unusual circumstances where those fine particles do cause harm.

-jim

Reply to
jim

formatting link
>>>>> Filters.cfm

The guys who write /Paradise Garage/ did a great study on this several years ago. While aimed at GM 5.7L small-blocks (IIRC they did this with a Firebird), they did a good job of combining theory with practice. They also gathered some test data.

Here's the link: <

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>

I've adopted some of their ideas for my 'vette and for a new 3.6L VVT-DI engine. The only major change I've made was changing the filter more frequently than I change the oil.

  1. I use Synthetic Oil exclusively
  2. I top up to the 'full' mark on the stick whenever it's about 1/2 pint down.
  3. I change when the oil life computer hits 30% or it's been 10K miles.
  4. I change the filter every 5K (and top up to 'full')

I performed an arbitrary change on the VVT-DI engine when it turned 2500 miles. At that point, the oil life gauge was showing 72% -- I just wanted to clear out excessive 'break-in uglies.'

Note -- neither of these engine types has a 'sludge' reputation so that wasn't a consideration. That might be a consideration for Toyota owners. YMMV

-- pj

Reply to
pj

Maybe for people who own older Toyotas, but Toyota fixed whatever was causing the problem with sludge. All of the Toyotas in my immeadiate family (3 RAV4s, a Highlander, and a 4Runner) have the automatic reminder that comes after 5000 miles, so I am not worried about sludge.

Ed

Reply to
C. E. White

"Obveeus" wrote in news:hp28cs$hth$ snipped-for-privacy@news.eternal-september.org:

So "chemical" and "harmful" are one and the same to you?

Define "chemical".

Reply to
Tegger

jim wrote in news:78GdnRLH3Kn8TCnWnZ2dnUVZ snipped-for-privacy@bright.net:

Thank you for accommodating me.

That statement is much more clearly written than your previous jumble.

Reply to
Tegger

Clearly, the above does not say that. Why are you acting stupid?

No desire to play your little agenda game. Defining 'chemical' will in no way lead to a greater depth of dicussion on why it is bad to needlessly expose yourself to harmful chemicals. Keep cleaning/disinfecting your home hourly if you believe that it won't/can't hurt you.

Reply to
Obveeus

Interesting point: "The HE filters used in this study claimed filtration of particles to 1-2 [microns], much better than standard filters of 30-50 [microns]. Using standard filters is one reason that motor oil needs to be changed; it gets dirty with small particles which results in engine wear. In this regard, standard filters have not improved over the years compared to significant improvements in motor oil quality. The oil change interval set in warranties is a result of standard filters being the limiting factor, not the motor oil quality. Hence, higher quality filters will help to extend motor oil life to its full potential."

This raises the question: would it be safe to keep engine oil for

10,000 miles if you replace JUST the oil filter every 5,000 miles?

Is an HE filter necessary? Oil analysis comparisons of the HE Fram X2 filter vs. a normal CarQuest filter would have been nice.

Maybe I can do an experiment with my '96 Camry (176k miles). For my wife's car, the 5,000 mile oil change will remain...

Michael

Reply to
Michael

The problem is that the oil filter is filtering out the small particles. So you still have the small particles going right through the filter.

Only if the comparisons include small particles.

And how are you going to determine the results of the experiment. You have an n of 1 (one sample). Not very useful.

This doesn't take into account that the additives in the oil get used up.

Jeff

Reply to
dr_jeff

Good point.

Then again the ('96) car's seen oil change intervals of 8000 miles anyway. Was thinking of pulling the valve cover to see how it's doing. In the absence of HE vs. regular oil filter data, was thinking of just changing the (regular) filter, leaving the oil in, for say

8000 miles again. Doesn't the manual specify 7500 miles? Don't have it on me at the moment...

The article implied that oil additives aren't the limiting factor: it's the oil filter that is the limiting factor.

Michael

Reply to
Michael

And then there is that incredibly noisy minority of people who actually think they are giving good advice.

Reply to
E. Meyer

Did you read the stuff you just posted (bolow)? It says 3750 (severe) and

7500 (normal).

Reply to
E. Meyer

I am saying "no," though it is conjecture like everyone else's. Honda itself says the normal schedule "is fine for most drivers." From my

2003 Civic's manual:
Reply to
Elle

On the 96 Camry it would be easy (assuming a 4 cylinder) because of the oil filter placement. On a lot of vehicles, changing just the filter would be messy.

Of course the whole premise is wrong to begin with though. Using "standard" filters has nothing to do with how often the oil needs to be changed.

Reply to
SMS

Yes I did. I understood that the two mileage requirements were 3750 (Severe) & 7500 (Normal). What I was commenting on was the line that said - "Their definition of normal also pretty much leaves out everybody."

While Nissan tends to push owners toward the "severe" schedule more than than other companies, I was trying to make the point that the regular schedule does not leave everybody out. I should have been more explicit in what I was discussing. To be clear, I think most Nissan drivers can use the regualr schedule. Honestly, why would anyone call a schedule "Normal" and then claim it wasn't? If they meant for the

7500 mile schedule to apply to only a few owners, they should have called it "light duty" or "unstressed" but certianly not "normal." I think Nissan was trying to both claim extended maintenance (competitive advantage for selling cars) and encourage people to go to their dealer more often (aftermarket profit motive). Nissan explicitly said you didn't need to use the "Premium Service" to maintain your warranty.

Ed

Reply to
C. E. White

I have one of the Chrysler 2.7 engines in one of my 2 Concordes. They are known for sludging up and catastrophically failing at between 60k and 80k miles. Many people learned the hard way not to go by the recommended 7500k change interval on those.

Of course it depends on the service that the vehicle sees too - i.e., lots of stop-and-go short-trip stuff vs. mostly highway use.

Mine has over 230k miles on it now and runs great because it is used on my daily commute of 80 miles total each weekday and I change oil and filter every 3000-3800 miles. Though people on the Chrysler forums will insist that that engine will not last unless you use synthetic, I've disproven that by using non-synth Castrol and 8 oz. of Marvel Mystery Oil at all times.

There are definitely some engines that can tolerate abuse (long oil change intervals), but some are definitely intolerant of that. I think it has to do with the crankcase breathing design.

ALSO - I can't help but feel that a lot of instances of engines failing due to sludging up is because more places (dealers included) than you would think actually do not change the oil or filter when the customer pays for it - I have seen that twice personally - once on my elderly mother's car, and once on a Jeep that my daughter had bought that had supposedly had oil and filter changed religiously every 3k miles at a chain, and I proved that to be absolutely false.

Reply to
Bill Putney

I've read more than one account on Chrysler LH car flrums where it was claimed that Chrysler refused to cover a 2.7L engine failure when the customer had receipts showing the oil was changed at the dealer on the Schedule A. Reason for turning the claim down: There is no such thing in the real world as Schedule A service. Everything is Schedule B. Claim denied. I can't swear that the posters were telling the truth, but that's what was claimed.

Reply to
Bill Putney

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