for the guys that are into recreational oil changing...

Page 6 of 13  


Causes of Car Paint Peeling
There are normally three layers of coatings on a modern automobile: primer, paint, and the clear coat. The primer acts as a base layer for the paint, assisting with adhesion, provides a predictable surface for coating, and provides additional protection for the underlying metal. The paint is the color coat. The clear coat provides a hard "shell" that protects the paint from oxidization, minor scratches, and increases the longevity of the aesthetic benefits of the colored paint. Car paint peeling (delamination) occurs when one or more of these layers lose adhesion with the surface under it. Primer may lose adhesion to the bare metal, paint may lose adhesion to the primer, and the clear coat can lose adhesion to the paint. When this happens, large sections or flakes of paint can slough off the vehicle.
There are two primary causes for car paint peeling. The first, and most often associated with large-scale paint delamination, is the improper preparation of the painted surface. All three major domestic manufacturers have had paint problems in the late-1980's through the mid-1990's due to changes in painting processes which resulted in the failure of either the primer, paint, or clear coat.
The second most common cause of paint delamination happens when the seal of the clear coat, paint, or primer get compromised by a chip or scratch. Once the barrier has been compromised, moisture and other contaminants can begin working their way under the coatings and create a starting point for delamination. There are reported instances where a small chip in the clear coat has caused catastrophic adhesion loss to the clear coat when the vehicle was pressure washed. The pressurized water gets under the coating and quite literally blows off hard, brittle shell of the clear coat. However, this scale of clear coat failure due to a chip is rare, and is indicative of other quality issues with the paint.
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On 03/31/2010 06:28 PM, snipped-for-privacy@mydaja.com wrote:

1. you should cite your source.
http://www.autotropolis.com/wiki/index.php?title r_Paint_Peeling
2. who actually wrote that? i'm a materials guy, and while i'm not a polymers specialist, i know enough about them to say with certainty:
a. manufacturers know enough about the paints and sealers they put on their cars, and test them enough in accelerated u.v., heat, cold, etc., to know whether they're going to peel or not. peeling paint is bad for business, so they use materials that, in the normal environment, do not. paints have been with us a looooong time. people generally learn as they go along.
b. the above does NOT apply when a completely unknowable spectrum of aftermarket chemicals, solvents and abrasives are applied.
again, before quoting over-simplistic attempts to explain, apply a little logic. on vehicles with high tops that owners do not wax and polish, have you ever seen one of those peel? what is the explanation?
--
nomina rutrum rutrum


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On 03/31/10 21:28, snipped-for-privacy@mydaja.com wrote:

Cool, definitely worth the price of admission! A guest spot on Letterman for Stupid Car Tricks, at least!
:)
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On 3/31/10 8:48 AM, in article hovjra$9p0$ snipped-for-privacy@news.eternal-september.org,

Looks like we found one of the zealots.
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Obveeus wrote:

Go ahead. Point out any foolish thing you want to. It is not as if about 90% of other consumer spending isn't a target for the big waste of money line. The question is why this particular obsession?

If you want to do that then advocate for getting rid of the automobile as private transportation.

Doubtful argument. My hunch is people with this obsession pollute the environment significantly more than those who aren't so obsessed.

That doesn't explain the obsession.

Well the same could be said for any other cosmetic product, but so what?
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I hadn't noticed any obsession.

That might be a bit extreme compared with the simple advise of 'don't throw away oil while it is still perfectly good'.

Do tell, why would people that don't want oil pollution be more likely to polute?

I hadn't noticed any obsession, but now that you mention the word, I will say that you do seem a bit obsessed with this issue.

'So what' could be said about 99% of all dialog, right? Maybe the 'advise' will keep someone from wasting time and money on car wax...and keep them from harming their car's finish. Sure, it is a 'so what', but why do you feel the need to respond with another 'so what' complaining/obsessing about the first 'so what'?
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Obveeus wrote:

I noticed that you hadn't noticed

How about you recycle it instead of throwing it away.

It doesn't even cross your mind that someone who claiming to not want oil pollution might be a bit insincere?

What issue? Making light of people who preach nonsense on the internet? If that is the issue you mean Ok, maybe I did take a little time today to be obsessed with that. But since Im not one of those who enjoys changing oil often I get my recreation in other ways.

Or maybe your deluded about the impact of your words.
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Recycle it? Is that like where the quick oil change centers run it through a screen and then sell it to new customers?

No, I don't take on face value that people who speak out against pollution are secretly plotting to pollute more.

Telling people not to waste time/money changing their oil every 3,000 miles is preaching non-sense?

Posting on usenet is not 'recreation'.

I have no delusions. I am well aware that the vast majority of people are too stupid to take good advise.
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Obvious wrote:

Well yes that would be recycling. Not exactly what I was thinking

If reducing oil consumption were the goal then driving less is the obvious solution. If you were focused on altering your life style so you produced less pollution, you might get to the point where your driving only 2000 miles a year and then you wouldn't be preaching 10000 mile oil changes. Would you? So no i don't think people who preach extended oil changes are really at all sincere about reducing pollution.

I reckon one can preach nonsense in regard to just about anything

    But changing oil at 3000 miles is?

         So now you say it does not keep them "from wasting time and money"
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On 3/31/10 4:02 PM, in article hp0d9b$5l4$ snipped-for-privacy@news.eternal-september.org,

And then there is that incredibly noisy minority of people who actually think they are giving good advice.
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wrote:

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Question for you: What's a "chemical"?
--
Tegger


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what's a dictionary?
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Shush. I want "Obveeus" to answer my question according to his own definition. That definition will surely be different from the dictionary one, which is why I want him to define it himself.
--
Tegger


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On 03/31/10 20:22, AZ Nomad wrote:

What's a "drug"?
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Did that statement really need to read as: 'Exposure to all the *harmful* chemicals also causes many health problems.' for you to understand it?
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So "chemical" and "harmful" are one and the same to you?
Define "chemical".
--
Tegger


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Clearly, the above does not say that. Why are you acting stupid?

No desire to play your little agenda game. Defining 'chemical' will in no way lead to a greater depth of dicussion on why it is bad to needlessly expose yourself to harmful chemicals. Keep cleaning/disinfecting your home hourly if you believe that it won't/can't hurt you.
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wrote:

You said, "Exposure to all the chemicals also causes many health problems."
You didn't say, "harmful chemicals", you said, "chemicals".
So...what's a "chemical"? Answer the question.
--
Tegger


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On 31/03/10 6:12 AM, jim wrote:

I think the source of your confusion has been identified. You mistakenly believe that the color of the oil is indicative of its lubricity and its level of contaminants.
Dark oil does not indicate the need for an oil change. The way modern detergent motor oil works is that minute particles of soot are suspended in the oil. These minute particles pose no danger to your engine, but they cause the oil to darken. A non-detergent oil would stay clearer than a detergent oil because all the soot would be left on the internal engine parts and would create sludge. If you never changed your oil, eventually the oil would no longer be able to suspend any more particles in the oil and sludge would form. Fortunately, by following the manufacturer's recommended oil change interval, you are changing your oil long before the oil has become saturated. Remember, a good oil should get dirty as it does it's work cleaning out the engine. The dispersant should stop all the gunk from depositing in the oil pan.
The only real way to determine whether oil is truly in need of changing is to have an oil analysis performed. Since most people don't want to bother with this, it's acceptable to err heavily on the safe side and simply follow the manufacturer's recommended change interval for severe service. There is no benefit in changing the oil earlier than this. You're not increasing your engine's life by changing your oil every 2000 or 3000 miles versus 5000 miles.
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