for the guys that are into recreational oil changing...

Page 7 of 13  
SMS wrote:


No i don't believe anything of the sort. The color of the oil indicates the color of the oil. The question I ask is why do you care if someone else prefers not to have a certain color oil?

Actually that is not exactly true. There is a remote possibility that those particles could become harmful to the engine. For instance if you are tooling down the interstate and you head gasket lets loose and suddenly it dumps a bunch antifreeze into your oil. That will very quickly use up all the dispersant/detergent additives in the oil. That means the particles that were happily being held in suspension doing no harm will start to rather quickly precipitate and agglomerates into larger particles and that can cause harm. Fresh clean oil can absorb more antifreeze before engine damage occurrs than old black oil can.     Saying extended oil changes are safe is based on the assumption that the engine is always going to be functioning properly. Keeping the oil cleaner than it needs to be can be insurance against certain types of malfunctions such as when excess fuel, antifreeze or dirt get dumped into the oil unexpectedly. Those may not be likely occurrences, but they do happen. Also, the older dirt laden oil is much less able to maintain it's viscosity and shear properties if the engine overheats excessively. And in this day and age excessively overheating engines is probably the number one cause of lubrication failures. Blow a radiator hose and the temps inside an engine can very quickly exceed 250C.

If someone changes their oil often enough so that it doesn't get black they never have to worry about whether they have reached the point where the additives can no longer protect the engine from the dirt. For instance if someone has a half a dozen cars, maybe its just a lot simpler and safer to change the oil when it starts to get very dark rather than keeping detailed records for so many vehicles.

But who cares if you happen to change the oil before you absolutely need to? I mean you probably don't wait to eat until you reach the point where it adversely affects health. You probably pea a lot more often than you really have to. Many people don't wait till April 15 to file their taxes. Doing things before it is absolutely positively necessary is pretty common human behavior. The question is why is this one particular behavior the one that gets so many people agitated?
-jim

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Sorry for jumping in in the middle here, but it appears to me that you're suggesting that the bad effects of a blown head gasket can be mitigated by clean oil. That's a huge falacy.
If the head gasket lets go, it won't matter if the oil was changed 10 minutes or 10 months ago. The contamination of the coolant into the oil is the least of the problem when the head gasket goes.
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Jeff Strickland wrote:

Well I'm sorry but the SAE doesn't share your opinion. There have been a number of studies on levels of antifreeze contamination on oil and its effects.

No not really, in terms of immediate consequences contamination of the oil can be the only real concern. A small amount of antifreeze lost from the cooling system won't impact on the engine temp and if the coolant leak is from the water jacket into crankcase then the only short term consequence at all is the contamination of the oil.
    That is not to say you can't create a scenario of head gasket failure where it doesn't matter how old the oil is. Even if it doesn't matter most of the time, that misses the point. The point is that no matter how improbable it may be it is possible to have just the right kind of leak with just the right amount of leakage that whether the oil is old or fresh can make a difference. So anyone who tells you there is no possibility that the fine particles suspended in the oil, that accumulate with miles, is going to ever cause harm is simply not being accurate. The best you can say is that it is unlikely they will ever cause harm.
-jim
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Your entire reply is very difficult to understand, is filled with negatives stacked upon negatives, and appears to my faulty brain to be pretty much ill-thought-out gibberish.
Should that head gasket let go in juuust the right way, in juuust the right place, and you're looking at... <
http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/sludge/22re_sludge.jpg
I'm not sure the age of the oil makes much difference here.
--
Tegger


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I don't agree with Tegger very often, but here I agree. This sounds like ill thought out jibberish.
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Tegger wrote:

Try reading it slowly - it isn't that complicated.

Well you seem to decipher some of it just fine. The age of the oil isn't going to prevent a leak if that is what your thinking was said. The point was the age of the oil can make a difference in some situations. A fairly small amount of glycol added to dirty oil can do damage where that same amount added to engine with fresh oil can avoid the damage. One of the consequences of adding the small amount of antifreeze is that it will rob from the dispersants and detergents their power to hold fine particles in suspension. That won't matter as much if the oil is not very saturated with fine particles.
The point is it is inaccurate to say there is zero risk to storing the fine particles suspended in the oil. You can if you want debate how small the risk is.
-jim
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Try writing more clearly. I don't care to wade repeatedly through lousy writing; I have to do enough of that at work.
--
Tegger


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Tegger wrote:

Obviously watching US TV has reduced your reading skills to very low level.      I'll put it in terms that even a simpleton should be able to understand.
Somebody said
"These minute particles pose no danger to your engine, but they cause the oil to darken."
I responded that although that holds true most of the time there can be unusual circumstances where those fine particles do cause harm.
-jim
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Thank you for accommodating me.

That statement is much more clearly written than your previous jumble.
--
Tegger


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On 04/01/10 13:01, jim wrote:

How about the CBC? Tegger lives in Canada.
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snip

Did you bother to follow JB's link and read the suggested oil change intervals he is promoting? Based on your sentence above, obviously not.
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The link Dr. Beam provides indicates a 10,000 mile oil change interval for cars. It goes on to say "Mileage can be extended furthest in gasoline engines by using higher quality motor oils containing a high total base number (TBN)."
So anything less than 10,000 miles between oil changes is recreational and unnecessary according to the OP. Not 2000, not 3000, not 5000, not 7500 miles.
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On 03/31/10 09:12, jim wrote:

Hey, all, let's re-argue detergent vs. non detergetnt motor oils, plus single grade vs. multigrade? I cannot believe I'm still seeing this same old crap argued so fervently in 2010. I've lived (and driven) thru all these arguments.
Nowadays I drive an '03 Accord sedan w/5AT and I send an oil sample for analysis every spring. 2010 will be the first year for an annual oil change. Just for the record, 6,300 miles since I changed the oil in 05/09). Analysis reports show my non synthetic oil as well as I4 engine are in excellent condition. I do some things non-factory: change oil filter every oil change, change engine air filter (along with the cabin one) annually, etc.
My $.02, YMMV, of course, and we're all entitled to our opinions. :)
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wrote:

Are you nuts? If I drove my car like a fleet vehicle, I'd exceed every service recommendation. It's not worth driving a fleet vehicle if you're not beating it like a rented mule...
--
Joe - Linux User #449481/Ubuntu User #19733
joe at hits - buffalo dot com
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3M miles on 120 vehicles averages to 25K miles per vehicle. What's that, about a year on a fleet vehicle? That's supposed to be convincing?
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On 03/30/2010 06:33 AM, ACAR wrote:

when i posted this - i was thinking of the people that do what their granddaddy did, even though combustion technology, fuels, oils and engine metallurgy are dramatically different these days. i was hoping to enlighten, but i guess i'd forgotten just how rigidly proud some people are of their ignorance and ability to keep their head stuck firmly in that sand.
next time you get sick, doubtless you're going to resort to burning camphor and bread poultices. those "doctor" people and their new-fangled "technology" and "drugs" clearly don't know what they're doing.
--
nomina rutrum rutrum

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I could give a shit less about oil analysis. Toyota tells me when to change my oil. THEY are the authority, in my case, because they warranty my engine.
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On 03/30/10 13:56, hls wrote:

A nice, open minded, rational position. Hope you haven't spawned, dude.
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jim beam wrote:

Well, if someone else paid for the oil analysis I wouldn't mind running the oil until the magic numbers said to change the oil. I like my mom's Buick, the computer tells her when to get the oil changed. It didn't tell her to get the manifold gasket changed that started leaking but I'm sure GM is working on a sensor for that.
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snip

well, he "changed" oil by adding when it was a quart or two low.

enlighten? Jim, you never enlighten, you issue directives.

generally, drug researchers don't make unqualified long term claims based on short term tests.
let me put it another way; you'd have to be an idiot to believe you can project the results from a year test on fleet vehicles to 10 years or more of normal passenger car use. not to mention folks in cold country are rightfully skeptical of tests conducted in CA.
are you familiar with engineering personality disorder?
just kidding....
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