It appears the dealer I use has decided that Fuel Induction service is absolutely necessary in my 06 Accord (103k miles) and our 09 CRV (71k miles) The response to my question -- how do you determine that -- was mileage and age of the vehicle. In fact the inspection report includes a picture of crudded up intake valve as proof and the explanation that ethanol is a key factor in this occurring. Both vehicles are still running smoothly and getting the gas mileage they have since bought new. In Googling this service, I find the results seem to indicate it really is not necessary in most cases -- just a dealer cash cow. Does anyone have any pro/con on this issue.
Pros: Taking a shower before you smell is good Cons: It costs money
I use to work at a shop with a Motovac FI cleaning machine. We used it on cars that ran like crap, along with replacing cap/rotor/wires (if equipped), spark plugs, air filter, and fuel filter, on cars with no history of ANY preventative maintenance (black air filter, etc) before attempting further diagnosis. We did this only with customer approval, (after recommending just getting a new car that wasn't a giant POS).
Using it on a car that runs fine, gets proper gas mileage, has had all manufacturer recommended maintenance, and is not setting any "lean condition" codes in PCM memory seems unnecessary to me. (as I sit here at a computer not seeing the actual cars).
if you really want to "do something", just buy a bottle of fuel injector cleaner at your local supermarket and use that - will have the same effect.
there is however something to be said for buying decent quality gasoline. it generally has both a better detergent package, and less crud in the first place. that'll keep your valves cleaner. and as another poster said, a sustained freeway run will do it a power of good too.
o.t., and to the point about gasoline quality you often make, i had an interesting experience recently. made a road trip, one i've made many times before, with some sustained grades on it. i know the route, know the best gas stations and know how the car performs along it. but this time, i deviated a little and filled up with chevron before the longest grade, which i don't normally do. omfg, what utter garbage. whenever i've used chevron before, for normal driving, it's ok, with maybe the gas mileage being a little low. but put on this occasion on this long steep grade and the need for full power - it simply wouldn't pull. the car normally cruises up a particular grade at 75 without flooring it provided you get a decent run at it and provided you don't let the revs drop below 3500. this time, i was pressing a dent in the boards, and she just wouldn't go faster than 55. further into the route with another sustained grade and back to my usual shell brand, the car was back to normal and pulling like a champ.
maybe this was a one-off bad tank, but it was a dramatic difference. i can't say i'm buying chevron any time again soon - supposed engine cleaning ingredients or not.
"tww1491" wrote in news:hsxkt.8020$ snipped-for-privacy@newsfe15.iad:
Fuel INJECTION Service. Nobody induces fuel in his engine.
That's meaningless.
ALL intake valves get crud on them. That's why gasoline has detergents, to control the amount of crud.
That's wrong. Intake deposits have been occurring since forever. In fact, they were worse back when detergent levels were lower.
Do you have a smog check in your area? If so, what are the cars' numbers? If intake deposits are great enough to cause problems, emissions will be the first to be affected.
Since both of your vehicles have OBD-II, serious emissions issues would be flagged by the Check Engine light. I'm guessing yours is OFF.
How's your fuel trim (long and short)? That's a tell-tale for developing problems.
Pro: Puts money in the dealer's wallet. Con: Removes money from your wallet.
If the engine runs as it always has, gets the same mileage as it always has, and emissions are normal, then the injection service is unnecessary.
"tww1491" wrote in news:hsxkt.8020$ snipped-for-privacy@newsfe15.iad:
Fuel INJECTION Service. Nobody induces fuel in his engine.
That's meaningless.
ALL intake valves get crud on them. That's why gasoline has detergents, to control the amount of crud.
That's wrong. Intake deposits have been occurring since forever. In fact, they were worse back when detergent levels were lower.
Do you have a smog check in your area? If so, what are the cars' numbers? If intake deposits are great enough to cause problems, emissions will be the first to be affected.
Since both of your vehicles have OBD-II, serious emissions issues would be flagged by the Check Engine light. I'm guessing yours is OFF.
How's your fuel trim (long and short)? That's a tell-tale for developing problems.
Pro: Puts money in the dealer's wallet. Con: Removes money from your wallet.
If the engine runs as it always has, gets the same mileage as it always has, and emissions are normal, then the injection service is unnecessary.
That's my take here. BTW -- they label it Fuel/Air Induction service or Fuel Induction service. The service advisor I dealt with this time was positively insistent about doing and even called the mechanic out to "talk" to me. This is a new approach by a dealer I have found to be pleasant to deal with in the past and quite above board. We don't have smog checks in this area.
if you really want to "do something", just buy a bottle of fuel injector cleaner at your local supermarket and use that - will have the same effect.
there is however something to be said for buying decent quality gasoline. it generally has both a better detergent package, and less crud in the first place. that'll keep your valves cleaner. and as another poster said, a sustained freeway run will do it a power of good too.
I buy Shell as it seems to work the best. This "requirement" is a new approach by a dealer I have found quite satisfactory in the past. Seems like things are changing. Appreciate the comments -- validate what I have been thinking all along.
"tww1491" wrote in news:07Lkt.1270$ snipped-for-privacy@newsfe13.iad:
Your replies are really confusing to read. Can't you separate your reply from the part you're quoting?
If your Windows Live Mail is too dumb to know to put ">" characters in front of the quoted part, you can always add a line of dashes to separate new from quoted, as follows:
that kind of "hard sell" is bullshit - and they know it. i'd seriously consider:
calling honda usa [not the dealer] and telling them you're unhappy and that it affects your willingness to consider future honda purchases. you'll almost certainly get a fawning apology next time you go in.
simply not going there any more. chances are, there is a decent honda-trained independent in your area - you just need to find them. dealer service is *not* mandatory to maintain warranties - by law.
"tww1491" wrote in news:07Lkt.1270$ snipped-for-privacy@newsfe13.iad:
Your replies are really confusing to read. Can't you separate your reply from the part you're quoting?
If your Windows Live Mail is too dumb to know to put ">" characters in front of the quoted part, you can always add a line of dashes to separate new from quoted, as follows:
--------------------------------------------------------------------- Live Mail is the problem .. thanks and sorry for the confusion. Appreciate input.
dealer's kid probably just got back home from business school and is trying to justify the expense by "helping" pops make an extra buck today at the expense of lost business tomorrow. pops will figure it out soon enough, but in the mean time, best to stay out of junior's "learning curve".
Can't supply a 'fact' for you to check but I've been working on engines for over 50 years. My dad and I rebuilt WWI aircraft and moved to WWII aircraft. Much of what I know I learned from him. Might mention that a
*lot* of that has not been written down anywhere. I have however passed the information to my kids and they have made good livings by treating their customers honestly without the need to resort to creative service and maintance fees.
If it's *injector* service, then it has little to do with the valves.
And I've never found injector service necessary, just a dealer add-on, and how do you know they did anything at all other than add however much to your bill?
If it's *injector* service, then it has little to do with the valves.
And I've never found injector service necessary, just a dealer add-on, and how do you know they did anything at all other than add however much to your bill?
J.
-------------------------------------------------------- Reply: As described by the dealers inspection report: " Utilizing specialized tools, our skilled technicians will clean fuel injectors, clean the throttle body, clean the plenum and air-intake, clean intake valves and ports, remove combustion chamber deposits and correct the balance of fuel and air in the system." The claim the service must be performed every 15,000 miles. Cost $129.95. This ought to warm Jim Beam's heart!
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