Gas smell after very short run?

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No - ad hominem is a personal attack. My concern is for the logic - there is still no apparent trigger point in your recommendations for investigating alarming indications. You leave the question unanswered: what does it take in your view to investigate, especially when it would cost nothing and could save a vehicle and even a home? Since my simple test (one you can recreate as easily as I did) left the source of the gas smell unexplained, do you still recommend the OP ignore it?

(Still not ad hominem - that is metonymy.) I really like to see fire hazards controlled before the fire occurs - I guess I'm funny that way. How would you feel - honestly and seriously - if tomorrow the OP reports a fire that destroys his Fit and possibly his home, particularly after you have been so adamant he should ignore the only warning he will get? Surely you recognize it could happen and that it has certainly happened to others. Personally, I would have trouble looking myself in the mirror for a very long time.

Now *that* is ad hominem. You finally nailed it. Wish you had answered the question though.
Mike, the chicken little drama queen (CLDQ to my friends)
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Michael Pardee wrote:

no, ad hominem is indirect attack. you're citing bullshit, then trying to imply that it applies.

yes i did. age of vehicle. track record of vehicle. circumstances of use. physics of situation.

what does it take? well, it /doesn't/ take worrying about the feelings of a drama queen!

the op /did/ ignore it!

no it's not! it's direct observation of fact! seriously, you need to use a dictionary. and calm down.

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wrote in message

From Microsoft Bookshelf, ad hominem is "Appealing to personal considerations rather than to logic or reason." Your "observation" (opinion) is immaterial to the subject at hand and I don't see how you could have meant it in any impersonal context. Thus, ad hominem.
I have been asking you to get factual but you have been ducking the questions. I checked your basic premise - that most or all cars smell of gasoline if shut down after a short run while cold - and found my car doesn't do it, none of the other cars around me (including two Honda products) appear to do it, while another contributor says in his experience that some do. It really doesn't matter to me what you think of me; you are entitled to your opinions. I just wish you would focus - once more, why should anybody ignore the only warning of a well known hazard of such serious consequences when it is *free* to check it out? Are you saying cars that smell like gas never have fuel leaks, or that without checking we will know which ones do and which ones do not?
You cite:

And wake up.
Mike
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Michael Pardee wrote:

no dude. look up wikipedia
argumentum ad hominem consists of replying to an argument or factual claim by attacking or appealing to a characteristic or belief of the source making the argument or claim, rather than by addressing the substance of the argument or producing evidence against the claim.
that is precisely what you were doing. you couldn't refute the facts of gasoline wetting and evaporation, so you went off on some tangent about ignoring oil warning lights, smoke under the hood, etc. i never suggested ignoring those things, so you undermined your own ad hominem by using patent bullshit.

er, i've repeated the facts for you several times...

then you have a defective sense of smell!

well known hazard? in year-old cars with ZERO HISTORY OF THIS PROBLEM???

i'm not saying either - and you're just clutching at straws. look at the facts.

mike, get your head out of your ass and admit:
1. you weren't paying attention to the original facts. 2. you're not paying attention to the facts as followed up by the o.p. 3. you don't understand the physics of why it happens. 4. you shot your own foot with bullshit ad hominem. 5. you need to see a doctor. 6. you're a sore loser.
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On 3/1/2009 11:37 AM jim beam spake these words of knowledge:

You've researched this about as well as everything else. As usual, you are partially correct, and think you know more than you do.
'Ad hominem' is literally translated as 'against the man'. Figuratively it means the same. It *is* (generally) a form of indirect attack, but Michael's definition (personal attack) is much more informative and apt, and therefore much more correct than yours.
This is typical of your argument process and your shoddy reasoning process. And *that* is ad hominem, although it is decidedly *not* indirect. It is precisely to the point.
RFT!!! Dave Kelsen
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Dave Kelsen wrote:

what is with you guys??? he can't address the facts, so he attempts indirect discreditation of the person instead.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem
oh, don't tell me - wikipedia's wrong on this one.
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Michael Pardee wrote:

In my experience many cars do smell of gas after being started then shut off within the first minute or two.
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Thanks for the input. I think long threads like this are put on a lot of "ignore" lists, so I don't know how many contributors are still with us.
Mike
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Michael Pardee wrote:

you mean, how many can put up with the drama queen getting their panties in a bunch long after the case is proven? go to a doctor mike - get your sense of smell checked out.
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"Jim," I have tried to be civil. You are not making sense and are becoming increasingly rude. Be as blind as you want about this. I am out of here.
Mike
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Maybe you have a gas leak in your car, too? I do not smell the gas from my car, from under the hood or from the tail pipe.
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On Sat, 28 Feb 2009 12:43:45 -0800, jim beam wrote:

Absolute and unadulterated bullshit.
I have *never* smelled gas on *ANY* fuel-injected car (Honda or otherwise), regardless of how long it was run, unless there was a problem/ leak somewhere.
You're full of shit. Quit spreading FUD, and/or just be quiet when you don't know what you're talking about.
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On Tue, 03 Mar 2009 19:31:26 -0800, jim beam wrote:


Nah. I've already wasted too much time on you. You're delusional, or stupid. I can't tell which.
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Actually, I really suspected you're observation. After all, I have been around the block a couple of times. It's just that I've never experienced this with modern cars. Of course, this is probably the first time in more than a few years that I've only run a car for a few seconds.
And yeah, an 11 month old car? A leak? If the Fit is that shitty, maybe I should trade it in on, say, a Suburban. I'm sure they're holding their value quite well.
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but not so strong that you were tempted to open the hood and check for a fuel leak?
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No. But Mr. Beam has pretty much nailed it, as far as I'm concerned. I would think that if it were a leak, I'd smell it by the time I got to work. Which, right now, is 1.85 miles away and takes me 5 minutes on a good day and 7 minutes on a bad day.
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Dillon Pyron wrote:

that kind of driving sucks for vehicle life - engine [etc] never gets to warm thoroughly [takes about 20 minutes]. you'd do the car [and yourself] a favor if you considered doing that commute by bike.
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Yeah, but last semester it was a 20 mile one way commute. And school is about 15 miles and 25 minutes (thank you, Austin downtown traffic).
And I still put in some good mileage on a regular basis. But yes, my sister's commute is about the same distance. She ran through a total of three mufflers on her 80 CRX (traded with 60K miles in 2005). Guy at the Honda dealer (who did not do the muffler) told her it was the water vapor that wasn't being sufficiently heated.
As far as the bike is concerned, US 290 west of Austin is deadly enough in a car.
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Dillon,
I asked the senior mechanic at work, Jim, if gas smells (not in my work truck, which is diesel) are normal when the engine is cold. He said, "Yeah, if you have a leak." Giving him more of the details he said the most likely problem in a new car is a rolled seal between one of the injectors and the fuel rail, in an older one the same seals harden when cold. The seals get more pliable when warm and the smell goes away. He said that gas smells, warm or cold, always mean a leak of some sort.
Mike
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Michael Pardee wrote:

and my friend's friend says you need to go to the doctor and get your nose checked out.
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